Flamenco x 2. Belén Maya & Israel Galván
speak about Mario Maya
Mario Maya’s intangible
legacy
S.C./Flamenco-world.com, March 2009
Festival de Jerez 2009 not only
paid tribute to Mario
Maya with the closing show-tribute, but also
with the ‘Baile Figures Technical Days. Contributions:
Mario Maya’, which took place at the Andalusian Flamenco
Center. Artists who worked with him and scholars of his
work took part in different round-tables. The icing on the
cake was provided by Belén
Maya and Israel
Galván who, moderated by Rosalía Gómez,
related their experiences with he who was the maestro and
director of both of them in the Compañía Andaluza
de Danza (Andalusian Dance Company). And between memories,
they revealed the legacy which he entrusted them with.
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Belén Maya and
Mario Maya on 'Mujeres' (Photo Daniel Muñoz) |
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Rosalía Gómez: Belén
Maya and Israel Galván are two of the people who
worked the most with Mario Maya. And to go into the matter,
they’re going to relate the experience they had with
him a little bit...
Belén Maya: I don’t
consider myself the one who’s worked most with my
father. Perhaps the ones who worked with him the most were
Israel Galván, Rafaela
Carrasco, Manuel Betanzos... who were his right hand,
the dance coaches, the ones who corrected and cleaned up
the choreographies, the ones who understood my father’s
real concept and the ones who conveyed many of his ideas
to the dancers. I came and went because I had a difficult
relationship with him at every level, both personal and
professional. I used to be in the company for a while, when
we started to fight a lot I’d leave, then I’d
come back... I was like that for quite a few years. I danced
in every show except ‘De Cádiz a Cuba’.
And the truth is that what it really meant
to work in a company like that, with a director like that,
has started to be seen recently. Afterwards, I’ve
been able to see how those ideas are translated into the
choreography, the stage concept... I didn’t know anything
about all that; the only thing I wanted to do was dance.
What mattered to me were the steps, for me to dance a lot,
I got really angry when he told me to stop... We had our
fights there. And recently I’ve started to understand
many of the things he used to say and why he used to say
them, especially, to transfer them to my shows and my baile.
In particular, the concept of time, that the bailes have
to have their right measure. He took painstaking care with
the lighting, the entrances, the exits, he attached a lot
of importance to the cleanness of the transitions, even
to the wardrobe details. And all that information has started
to sink in; late, but it’s there. I don’t consider
myself very representative of his work because there are
colleagues who were much more in contact with him than I
was. I can relate my personal experience with him, which
will always be quite decisive. Israel did much closer work...
Israel Galván: I
disagree a little with what Belén is saying because
Mario’s representative is her. We saw her dance yesterday
and she truly reminds you of Mario; she carries him inside.
Rafaela and I, for example, we were with him a lot, but
she’s the one who really gets to you. And regarding
my relationship with Mario... The first time I can remember
seeing Mario dance was in a video. I didn’t want to
dance at first and when I decided to dance, I began watching
every video my father had recorded. One day I played one
of ‘¡Ay! jondo’ and when I saw a position
which he did I was surprised and I said he should be ashamed
of himself, how could he dance like that, the nerve of him
doing that. The impression he made on me was due to the
transgression he did with his body. Before that I used to
dance afarrucado, wilder, and that was unknown to me. And
the truth is that I was really lucky that my father took
me to Mario’s studio and that he chose me to be in
his company. That was another shock, joining a company,
having discipline.
The first time I danced with Mario I was
18 years old and it was at the Teatro Falla doing ‘Tres
movimientos flamencos’. I made my début with
Marco
Vargas; the two of us were hopelessly nervous. And it
was also the first time I saw Mario dancing off stage. I
didn’t know what ballet was, when I saw everybody
at the bar... There was an instructor who wanted to kick
me out. She had discipline, a choreography, the arms all
right... and I came all wild. But I was lucky that Mario
held on to me. I met Rafaela, a little later Belén,
Betanzos... who all helped me a great deal. And Mario made
me work from head to toe, full body dynamics. And I also
noticed that Mario danced like a feather. You didn’t
need to tap your feet so much. And the truth is he was a
very strict person and he had a bit of nastiness about him,
which is what’s of use to you in time. When you tapped
your feet and left, he might make a gesture like that with
his finger next to his ear... He didn’t use to call
your attention, but rather just used gestures which bothered
you more; they were more hurtful.
Belén: He was so
ironic... He was always mentioning Pilar
López, who was his maestra. And according to
him, she was the maestra of irony and absolute sarcasm.
Israel: When I met Pilar
López I understood everything.
Belén: He’d
never make inopportune remarks to you... but he’d
destroy you.
Israel: I remember many years ago at the
Albéniz on Dance Day, Marco and I were there at the
dress rehearsal doing ‘¡Ay! jondo’ with
all the dancers in front of us, and we had to pull him backwards.
And he tells us: “A little bit more, and you’ll
take me to the dressing room”. He used to yell at
me but I know it was necessary. Mario gave me a lot of self-confidence
to do what I wanted to do later on. As I’d been with
Mario, I came out on stage with real self-confidence, as
if marked. And he’s always been the voice of my conscience,
a responsibility. If I hadn’t been with Mario I wouldn’t
have reached – not that I’ve come very far –
where I am right now.
Rosalía: He was obsessed with music. Did
he make you change at all your relationship with music and
with cante?
Belén: His relationship
with the cantaores and guitarists would always really catch
my eye. As he used to play the guitar and sing, he knew
a great deal and he could grab the guitar straight off just
like that and say I want it like this. And that gave him
a little more power with the musicians, of being able to
be demanding. Then he also used to use the musicians as
part of the show, as if they were dancers, as extras. He’d
move them around, he didn’t have them seated, he’d
attach a lot of importance to them on stage and of course,
he demanded a lot from them. He wouldn’t stand for
any gesture which got away from the choreography. That business
of drinking out of the bottle which is done so much now...
unthinkable! They couldn’t even press a button or
anything. He was always off stage watching the whole performance,
with a little towel over his shoulders because he used to
sweat a great deal, he’d take notes and afterwards
he’d tell you mistake by mistake: you did it like
that, you touched your hair... The musicians were really
important to him. He also used a lot of music which wasn’t
strictly flamenco. In ‘Diálogo del Amargo’
there was a passage by Stravinski that the Horseman-Horse
danced. He liked classical music a great deal and whenever
he could...
Rosalía: Did he plant the
experimental seed in you?
Belén: He marked
me... Although he never liked the things I used to do, especially
the more modern stuff. But recently he told me that he did...
Mario Maya at Festival
de Jerez 2004 (Photo Daniel Muñoz) |
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Rosalía: Israel’s
father should also be heard...
Israel: Well, he’s
changing.
Belén: A couple
of months before he died I invited him to watch me dance
at the Corral del Carbón in Granada. He came in afterwards
and he who never used to say anything told me: “Good,
really good”. He didn’t like modern stuff...
at least, in me. He liked to see me more traditional. I,
for example, was marked a lot by ‘¡Ay! jondo’
and ‘Camelamos naquerar’, which was the first
thing I saw. I remember that my mother used to have the
record at home, she danced with him as partners... And I
was really marked by all that political stuff, about protest,
vindication; that seemed really modern to me at that moment
and really brave. I wanted to do that. I’ve never
wanted to dance for the sake of dancing. As I’m a
bit rebellious, I’ve always wanted to clash again,
to go further. And I thought that if he did so in his time,
he had to understand that the rest of us want to do so.
Rosalía: Today we’ve
spoken about the importance of the maestro and also about
the importance of pupils rebelling, as both of you have
done. Israel, in what ways to you feel indebted to Mario?
We talked about strictness, the baile’s lightness,
a different use of energy...
Israel: I think he’s
allowed me to be able to continue on my way. The same way
that Mario followed a different road from Pilar López’s.
Each one has to acquire his own style. I think I can also
say about Mario that it was very important that he was a
gypsy. When you talk about gypsy dancing it’s because
it resembles Farruco’s style or Jerez baile. I think
Mario’s is also gypsy dancing, since he doesn’t
go elsewhere at any time. All the body dynamics he has refers
to flamenco. Group choreographies in flamenco shock me in
general. But there are two choreographies which I consider
flamenco; the one that Mario and Güito have, which
has nothing to do with dance, but with flamenco, and that
work with the cantaores which Belén has talked about,
I also see that movement from ‘¡Ay! jondo’
as flamenco. And I think it’s really important that
Mario is given that recognition for his choreography, which
is flamenco.
Rosalía: When putting things
together, did he use to listen to you? Did you propose things?
Belén: Mario didn’t
use to set up steps. Israel knows it, Rafaela knows it and
all of us who have worked with him know it. He’d tell
you the idea, what he wanted with the music, what he’d
like... and you’d contribute to it. We laughed a lot
at the rehearsals for the tribute because we remembered
who each step in ‘Oliva y naranja’ was by. We’d
done them ourselves.
Rosalía: I’m not talking
about steps, but rather concept.
Belén: No, no,
no. He was really sure of the concept. I especially remember
about ‘Réquiem’ by the Compañía
Andaluza de Danza (Andalusian Dance Company) that it was
very hard staging with a great many people, with music...
And until he got what he wanted, he wouldn’t leave.
And it wasn’t about steps, but rather reaching perfectly
well where he wanted, moving people where he wanted, and
with the thing about time, for everything to last what it
had to last. The truth is that in general, the Andalusian
Dance Company was something wonderful, an experience...
We had incredible instructors there. I’d already worked
with Goyo Montero before; we’ve known one another
forever, but for me Milagros
Mengíbar was a dream. And also all of us being
in contact, for we contributed a great deal to one another.
Rafaela Carrasco and I keep on working together, I learnt
a lot from Isabel
Bayón, I used to steal her steps...
Since here in the south there’s so
much individuality, something which isn’t so in Madrid,
that all being together, seeing each other, sharing, helped
me a great deal. When I got to the Company I’d come
from Madrid having studied classical Spanish dancing. And
my father used to tell me not to dance, to devote myself
to something else. He used to tell me so very sincerely.
And since I’m so stubborn, I insisted. I came in when
they were finishing ‘¡Ay! jondo’ and they
were beginning to set up ‘Diálogo del Amargo’.
And I didn’t know anything about flamenco, I didn’t
know how to mark, I didn’t know what a call was. And
I was already 18 years old; I started really late. I joined
the Company and the tablao Los Gallos at the same time in
order to learn. He used to stress the flamenco stuff a lot
with me, that I had to see flamenco people... It was really
hard for me because I got to Los Gallos and I didn’t
even know how to do my make-up. And little by little, as
I was also quite hard-working, I began to move up in the
Company... I ended up dancing with him as his partner in
‘Diálogo del Amargo’, something which
was really nice. And I had a bad time of it because I had
a great deal of responsibility; I didn’t live it freely
like them.
Rosalía: Has your surname
affected you?
Belén: A lot. Always.
And with him, more so. I felt really responsible, I had
to do it really well. Until I left the Company, I didn’t
feel free to do what I wanted to do, to make mistakes, to
dance badly, to dance well...
Rosalía: But then you came
back. Of the ‘Mujeres’
(‘Women’) from last year, one of them is Belén
Maya...
Belén: Yes, it
was always a round-trip route.
Question from the audience: Israel,
was it disappointing for you that Mario Maya wrote a negative
review of ‘La Metamorfosis’ in ‘El Correo
de Andalucía’?
Israel: I’d expected
it. But it was done affectionately. When I danced at the
Córdoba Contest, I won a prize, and he yelled at
me like crazy... about how I was dressed, about everything.
I knew it. I think I gave Mario few joys. I think he was
satisfied with me in the Compañía Andaluza,
with the solo I used to do when it was directed by him;
it was a maestro-pupil relationship. Then everything has
its cycles. And since he used to say everything in good
humor, with that irony... it didn’t bother me. But
he really didn’t cut me down that much. The truth
is that it really vexed me not to have had one last conversation
with him. The last time I saw him was in London with ‘Mujeres’
and he told me to go to the show, that I was really going
to like the duo formed by Belén and Rocío.
I couldn’t go, but it was a real joy for me to see
him like that, working and relaxed. I was left with a chat
pending or even working again with him. I do know he was
really excited about me winning the Giraldillo at the Bienal,
you could tell, and when I was given the National Dance
Prize he wrote me an e-mail. After all, I’ve come
from him.
Comment by festival director Isamay
Benavente: What Mario has left is the sense; he never used
to do or say things gratuitously. I think his legacy in
you is that there’s sense in the road which each of
you has taken individually...
Israel: What you’re
saying is true. It’s about concept. OK, everybody
dances well, but those who have been with Mario have a plus
in concept.
Belén: He’d
tell you things because he saw the potential. He saw something
you didn’t see in yourself, but he did see it and
he wanted you to emphasize it. That’s what maestros
must do. But he didn’t use to say the good stuff.
He used to say to me specifically, for example, in ‘Mujeres’
that he really liked those tangos. But do that three or
four more times, he’d stress things about baile which
weren’t commercial; he didn’t aim to bring the
crowd to their feet, but rather to turn everything flamenco-style
to the max within my concept, my body, my way. And it’s
hard for you because you might want to go elsewhere and
get rid of precisely that. He wasn’t a maestro of
steps; he’d never correct you, it seemed as if he
didn’t see you, but he was looking at other more subtle
things in you.
Rosalía: It’s been
very interesting how we’ve gone from Pilar López
to Mario Maya, and how we’ve gone from Mario Maya
to this legacy which is tangible and intangible at the same
time.
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