Interview with Antonio Canales, bailaor:

"Failure is what makes life wonderful;
I don't ever want to forego that pleasure"

Silvia Calado Olivo. Seville, December 2002
Translation: Gary Cook

Antonio Canales continues his impossible search for that elusive bull with green eyes, only too aware that he doesn't have time on his side. The bailaor has just embarked on a new creative phase, freed from both internal and external ties, and with no qualms about making mistakes. "I want to be coherent in what I do, rather than aim to please." And he's practicing what he preaches - look no further than the harrowing portrait (and in part self-portrait) of the labyrinths of human suffering on show in 'Minotauro'. Dancer, choreographer, stage director... but also actor, writer and, if needs be, presenter. The multi-talented artist's overwhelming restlessness has led him to take part in two movies, one directed by Santiago Tabernero and the other by Randa Haines - his first venture into American cinema, where he stars alongside Patrick Swayze. He concedes that "you can't be good at everything", but he's one of the few who express their anxieties. From the intimacy of the dressing room, Antonio Canales opens himself up for analysis, and is cross-examined more thoroughly by the other Antonio Canales staring back at him from the dressing-room mirror than by the interviewer.

Antonio Canales in 'Minotauro' (Photo: Claudio Álvarez)

When you launched 'Minotauro' you promised this would mark the start of a new stage in your career... so which way are you headed?

I'm starting a new phase using my creative side - as a choreographer, director, inventor of new tricks... but not inventing flamenco in any way. I don't believe in this nuevo flamenco - for me flamenco has no timescales, you can't put an age on it. 'Bailaor', for example, is a pure, pure show, where I dance seguiriyas and soleá; there's nothing contemporary about it... so people can also see Antonio Canales dance flamenco with his heart and soul.

I'm closing the door on a decade of 'Cenicienta' (Cinderella), 'Guernika', 'Bernarda' (he reels them off mechanically)... a bunch of stuff, some things better than others. And now I'm starting a new phase where I don't have to worry about selling a product or whether the managers are gonna like it or not. I'm 41 and I don't have that pressure anymore. Now I have other pressures, but not that one. The main source of pressure is from my ego, from the man I'd like to be, from what I've learned with other directors, from experimenting, from making mistakes. Like Charlie Chaplin said, "Failure is unimportant. It takes great courage to make a fool of yourself." Failure is what makes life wonderful; I don't ever want to give up that pleasure. And that's the only way to find what you're looking for, to make headway. I want to show audiences another vision of choreography, and I think I've achieved that in 'Minotauro'.

You said you felt freer from ties, even from your own...

From everything. An artist grows older, and as he does he gets to shake off some of his old reservations. You know what is and what isn't going to hurt the audience's feelings. I don't know, you learn, your attraction grows. It has its downside too: with much wisdom comes much pain. I try to be coherent in what I do, rather than aim to please audiences. 'Minotauro' isn't a show you come away from thinking "that was pretty". It doesn't inspire dreams; nightmares maybe though. There's nothing wrong with injecting fear and unpleasant elements into dance, so long as you maintain the excellence, and put a lot of hard work into it. I think the Flamenco-world.com review was great, shamelessly begging me - if this was what I was going to do - that I didn't do something else to cover up what I really wanted to do. The trouble is that at the Bienal, the whole of Seville wants to see me dancing tangos with the spotted headscarf... and I can understand that. Even my mother said "son, you will dance, won't you?" What really hurts - and I say this not for my own benefit but for the artists who put all that work in - is when critics dismiss it as "cheap". You can't insult artists, even if you don't agree with what they're doing. It's really sad that they're still examining you after all this time.

As for the content of 'Minotauro', it covers a lot of areas, the whole labyrinth of defects that humans suffer from: alcohol, drugs, power, wife beating, adultery, bisexuality... It's about a character on the road to ruin, with death waiting around the corner. And for me, that's how the labyrinth of humankind looks.

Antonio Canales in 'Bailaor' (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

And is there something of that Minotaur in Antonio Canales?

There's one part that reflects him, a part that's slowly dying. I'd never stopped to think about what you asked me, but it's true. Your faculties are slipping away. There's nothing you can do about it, something inside of you is dying. You might turn your back on the fact, like all those washed-up old artists... and they're living a lie. But that's no good when you turn to dance. Age is a great handicap. Some people have a breakdown, become hysterical, intolerable, and they turn to drugs because as soon as they see a sign of something in them aging they think they missed their chance to do all they wanted in life. Youth is draining away, but (he points to Juan de Juan) the youngsters are on their way...

But aside from the bailaor there's Antonio Canales the choreographer, Antonio Canales the musical director...

"Age is a great handicap in dance"

You can't help feeling uneasy about it, but you can't fight growing older. Of course I feel fulfilled as a choreographer, or writing scripts and acting, or running a program. I'll always be in touch with the arts because I'm a very communicative person, but dance (he pauses for a few seconds) is the best form of self-expression for me. When I feel that sweat breaking out, that's when I feel complete. When that stops happening... that's a time of suffering all dancers must bear in mind.

As for the swelling reserve of newcomers (Juan de Juan, Paul Vaquero, David Paniagua...), do you think there'll be an Antonio Canales school?

Flamenco schools are very conflictive. There's the Marchena school, the Mairena school, the Sabicas school, the Paco school and the Camarón school. But I don't think there'll ever be an Antonio Canales school. For example Triana was a unique group, which later spawned Ketama and Pata Negra and even Camela. Triana was amazing, it started something moving, but it didn't leave a school behind. And you couldn't say there's a Carmen Amaya school either. The influence is more diffused. But it is a rich source of inspiration.

	"I don't think there'll ever be an Antonio Canales school ... although I think flamenco is already impregnated with it"

Maybe not in the style, but perhaps more in the way I relate to the audience, the way I perform sudden golpes, the way I use the music... The Canales style is there; in fact I think flamenco is already impregnated with it. But there isn't much chance it'll stay like that, because everyone takes it and distorts it to come up with a style of their own, which isn't such a bad thing. So yeah, your style is there as something for others to bear in mind.

And what do you think this new generation will contribute to flamenco dance?

I hope they contribute, above all else, soul. If you don't put your soul into it, everything you do is worthless. You can have a great technique, but if you're selfish and you don't give of yourself... You have to be generous, kind, show people all you know, put your heart and soul into what you do. Then there'll be those that shine when it comes to zapateado or with the mantón. When did you last see a decent flamenco artist with castanets? In the old days people used to dance really well. These days that isn't so true. I feel confident that things that have been left out along the way for the sake of convenience will be picked up again. Newcomers should never forget the foundations and the pillars of flamenco, but they have to bare their soul.

We needn't lose sleep over the future of flamenco then?

No, there are a lot of newcomers from a lot of perspectives: some more purist than others, some more innovative, some better creators than they are performers, and some the other way around... all kinds of artists. Flamenco today isn't so fussy about which type of audiences it's looking for. These days there are some great shows, great schools, great artists... and they're all in their prime. You have to put your faith in them. When I was young we used to say, "Hell, this guy's age is catching up with him and now he's complaining about us newcomers." Nowadays that's a little passé, that attitude comes from a bygone era, it reflects a lack of curiosity, it's done a lot of damage to flamenco. Now we have to look at things differently, allow artists their freedom, show understanding... not only toward those who are on their way in, but to those who are established and those who leave us.

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