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What kind of relationship did you have with José Monje Cruz?

I was never really a friend of Camarón's. After his death hundreds of people emerged from the woodwork saying they were intimate friends with Camarón, and that they knew everything about him. I wasn't one of them. I used to bump into him in Madrid at one time. We also saw each other quite a few times for professional reasons. But when I really got to talk to him is when we went on trips together. There was one project of his that was the “disco de los viejos”, an album influenced by the old time cantaores he liked most. On that album I was set to write the lyrics. Unfortunately, when José started to look more seriously at this idea, he wasn't up to it.

Carlos Lencero

Who were the old time cantaores Camarón liked?

He knew practically everybody that had recorded. The studio he had at his house was amazing. There were old 78s, cassettes... And then if you told him there was a cantaor in Malaga who sang a weird kind of fandango, José would get in the car and he'd be on his way to Malaga. He always said that he learned everything from his mother Juana. Also, La Perla de Cádiz was a very important person in his life. And then there were the great cantaores we all know, such as Manuel Torre, Tío José de Paula, El Chaqueta, El Canastero, La Niña de los Peines... The list went on and on. It was hard to select a few. I never heard Camarón speak ill of any artist. He always looked for the good side of every artist, he always you said “he's got something special”.

Do you think the type of life Camarón led, the world of drugs, had an influence on the flamenco scene today?

I think it's more a problem of education, of personal decisions. I uphold the total freedom of all men. Every man has a right to decide what he wants to be and what he wants to do with his life. Camarón, by becoming a legend, has the added problem that his behavior could influence others. It's hard to say how far the legend of Camarón is responsible for that imitation. I think it's not a simple matter, it's difficult to elucidate.

Turning to flamenco in general, after your seven year break from activity due to illness, has flamenco changed a lot?

Before my illness I was starting to notice a change in guitar technique. Flamenco guitar music has come a long way. The guitar has become an instrument that can almost live independently of cante and baile flamenco, something that was unthinkable before. There are enough venues in the world for people who play the guitar well enough to do so. There's Paco de Lucía, Vicente Amigo, Cañizares, Riqueni, Manolo Sanlúcar... Cante has registered more knocks than victories. Right now all eyes are on Jerez, probably the place with the greatest population of cantaores. Let's see where it all leads.

Flamenco dance is what I found hardest to swallow. I think one thing is flamenco dance, and another is theatrical dance, or what some would call ballet. I never did understand the link that ballet has with flamenco. We have to think about where 'baile flamenco' came from - if it's something premeditated, if it's designed to a specification. I wonder at who designs, who choreographs flamenco dance today. Because when I go to a family gathering, a baptism or a wedding, and I'm having a drink with gypsy friends... when the guitar plays a soleá, suddenly someone will get up and do a quick turn 'por soleá', then sit back down again. Meanwhile the cante and the guitar keep the rhythm. And that will happen time and again as the party goes on. Baile gitano is off-the-cuff, it's show-us-what-you-got. El tío ‘Tragapanes’ once said to me “he who knows how to do something does it, and he who doesn't teaches it”. Here's where the schools of dance come in - a lot of people use that term in a negative sense. I mean, they don't have their own style of dancing, they learned their dancing. That's how we got to have so many schools of dance. Baile should be more flamenco. I think dancing flamenco to a ballet choreography would be like singing a pop song 'por bulerías'.

Is there a fuzzy boundary between ballet dancers and bailaores?

I think so. I also think it's a matter that hasn't been addressed, because there are a lot of people out there who prefer it not to be addressed. If we ever cleared that up then everyone would have to choose one side or the other of the fence. For example, take the case of Antonio ‘El Bailarín’. I never heard anyone call him Antonio ‘El Bailaor’. And as far as I know Antonio never took offence at that. I don't mean that one thing is more complicated than the other, I think they're both extremely complex. You just have to know how to distinguish between one and the other. Then you get people defending this position, though, saying the more training an artist receives the better.

Who's your cantaor, bailaor and guitarist of the moment.

I see a lot of guitarists out there. There's Vicente Amigo, Cañizares, Riqueni... From the ‘Morao’ clan there's Moraíto and Diego del Morao. And then there's the ‘Parrilla’ family. The only style of playing that really stood out from the rest is the Morón school. There you have Diego de Morón, although he has his ups and downs. As for cante, I wrote a lot of stuff but little or nothing for my idols. I wish I'd written something for Perrate, for Fernanda de Utrera or for Chocolate who's still around. As for dance I admit I'm in a full-blown crisis. I remember seeing Manuela Carrasco. But if I had to lock myself away and listen to a singer and watch a bailaor dance 'por soleá' I'd like it to have been Diego del Gastor, Fernanda de Utrera, Perrate and Angelita Vargas. Isidro Vargas also struck me as a fully-rounded bailaor. Out of what I’ve seen lately, which isn't much, there's Antonio el Pipa. A good bailaor and a true gitano. As for Eva Yerbabuena, from what I've seen I'm sure she knows how to dance very well. I think the choreography she chooses doesn't work in her favor. Apart from the dance, she has to defend the stage design, the whole company of dancers... and I think it's too much for just one person. I won't say any more names, not because I don't like anyone else, but because what they do in the context they do it in just doesn't attract me.

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