September 2000
CÓMPLICE DESPRENDIDO

Duquende's lament is practically the first thing you hear on your record, in the bulerías, "Cambalache".

I recorded that some time ago; the title comes from a group of eight members which I formed years ago in Barcelona, and I wanted to play this piece in honor of the group, although Duquende wasn't one of the members. Since I was working four or five years with him, I wanted him to have a presence on the record.

Was Cambalache parallel to Iberia?

The Amargós group?

Yes, with Ginesa....

No, that was much earlier, when Iberia was current I wasn't in circulation, but it wouldn't be long.

When did you begin to play?

When I was twelve or thirteen.

So then Cambalache was at the same time that...

...that I was with Mayte, with Duquende... After recording the record "Muy frágil" of Mayte Martín, after the tour, the idea came to me, to have a broader field, artists exclusively from Barcelona, but it fell apart because there were a lot of us and there wasn't that much work, the singers went with Joaquín Cortés... So I got to thinking about recording solo.

You began with Mayte, before starting with Ginesa.

Yes, but the real beginning was in the tablao, El Tablao de Carmen, something that is reflected in the record, and this was where I was formed as a guitarist. When I got there I was green and it was an amazing time in that tablao, with an invited artist each month, it was a big incentive and I played for all of them. I was with Eva la Yerbabuena for five months.

And Paco Jarana.

No, they weren't even together then, she came with her parents. Sara Baras was also there, Adrián... lots of people during a magical time.

Miguel Poveda also started out in the Tablao de Carmen.

But when I was there I didn't even know him, he hung out with Mayte and they were friends. I met Mayte in the tablao, she noticed me and wanted me to work with her. I spent a year and a half in the tablao, the right amount of time to learn without getting bored.

Do you remember the date?

Yes, it was twelve years ago, and now I'm 32, fresh out of the service I started at the tablao.

You've also worked as musical director with Ginesa Ortega.

Yes, I was musical director for both her records, "Siento" and "Oscuría", but I've been with Mayte longer, working seven or eight years. I was only a couple of years with Ginesa, together with… it's that there was a time when I was really balled up because I was with Duquende, with Mayte, with Ginesa, with Poveda... a real mishmosh, too many people and too diverse. Each one wants to keep his or her own guitarist, but when there are so many it's impossible, and they each end up looking for someone who can stick around longer.

You were really in the thick of it, with the four pillars of flamenco in Catalonia.

Yes, it was several years during which time I was between the four singers who represented Barcelona. Duquende with his record, Ginesa with her artistic restlessness, Mayte as well is unique in her art, and Poveda does some experimentation once in a while, but we're still hanging in there.

So have you stuck with the one who has the best future?

That's hard to say, I think they all have possibilities. It just happend like that. His way of being, not as a singer but as a person, is incredible, and I can't get away from him. As a person I mean, he really gets to me, in the good sense, and in every way, and I really like working with him. I had a fantastic relationship with Mayte and also with Duquende, as well as with Ginesa, but there's always been a certain distance, an exclusively professional relationship, getting along great and being mutually appreciative, as continues to be the case, but with Miguel there is a personal friendship, and that's the main reason I feel more tied to him.

In your record Miguel sings some tangos dedicated to Camarón.

Yes, the lyrics talk about him although he isn't mentioned. There weren't too many pieces where I wanted to add voice, and in the end he did the tangos.

You put Duquende at the opening, and a violin dialogue to bulerías.

I didn't want to feature the guitar in that particular band because it's a group number, which is what it was when I made Cambalache. There was also some dancing, but I'm generally not in favor of putting dance on a record.

I'd like to outline the solo guitar pieces.

The bulerías is very 'down-home', without any kind of 'arrangement' or double meaning; there were some palmas and I knew which variations I was going to play, but the fill-ins came as they came, whatever the moment called for. Except in Poveda's tangos and Duquende's bulerías, the riffs are completely spontaneous.

How many takes did you record of the soleá and the taranta?

Of the soleá three, and of the taranta a few more.

It's a taranta fantasy...

Actually, it's that in the free-form elements, those where there is only a guitar, I played with no intention of telling a story; they aren't 'pieces', but rather flamenco guitar forms.

With an occasional touch of jazz?

More than jazz, it's like a blues thing... no, not blues either, Brazilian, sweeter music... I listen to everything, but Brazilian music is what I like best. Jazz is more hard-edged, more acerbic. It's a feeling I don't really know how to describe.

Harmony?

Yes, but it's a little bit of everything, there's a certain rhythmic thing related to jazz...

That's really noticeable in the rumba you do with Jordi Bonell, a guitarist who was in Secta Sónica with Gato Pérez.

For me, he's one of the guitarists I like the most, I don't mean from Barcelona, but in the world. For that you have to have been with him and shared many things, musically he's a wonder. Like Bové the pianist, or Figuerola the sax, these are musicians for the masses, they play for themselves but they are great musicians. Anyone who works with them can tell you. Actually the rumba was to end sooner, but I had personal interest in working with them and the last round where they play it's as if it were a different piece, another rumba, it's two different climates. It's called "BCN" because we're all Catalonians.

Is the end the the freest moment of the record?

Without a doubt, it's that it's an improvisation, not a rehearsed piece.

...And Meditarranean breezes close the record with the nana.

Yes, I put it together when my daughter Sheila was born, it's for her, it just came like that, as is, in the beginning I was going to orchestrate it with Amargós, with strings, but the more I played it and listened to it, the more I thought that it wasn't necessary and I left it just with the guitar.

And orchestrated nanas, there are more than a few...

For that reason too, I thought that if I arrange it, it's going to seem like the same old thing, and that doesn't mean that some day, I might not still do it.

Because Amargós didn't take part.

No, and in fact he gave me a dressing-down... In this case, since I had worked with him many times, live and in recordings, I felt fulfilled with him, and it wasn't so urgent. I preferred to do it with Bové, Figuerola, and Bonell so they can be heard in flamenco circles and people can see the musical level there is in these parts.

Pardo-Benavent-Tino, have they pretty much covered that ground of collaborating artists?

That's another reason, because bringing in Carlos it would have been similar to other things, and I've never heard a piano and an acoustic guitar like those on any flamenco record, and the sax sounds nothing like Pardo, the rumba has nothing to do with them.

They've got you as star pupil of the Sanlúcars, of both Manolo and Isidro.

That is a mistake in the press release the recod label did. I was the first one to complain, but anyway, I suppose they just wanted to make me sound more important. But it's not true, and if it is, Manolo and Isidro would be the first to know it, no one else. Nor was I around long enough to consider myself a student, at 16 I took my first one-month guitar course with Manolo Sanlúcar, after that, another... Vicente Amigo is the star pupil if anyone is, because he's been around a long time, not me, I just took a couple of courses which have been of great help, that yes.

Let's talk about a couple of exotic digressions. First, Orson Welles' "El Quijote".

When Orson Welles died the film was left unfinished and I was hired by a French firm which took over the production, so there were certain parts where they wanted there to be be guitar. And I did that. That was in '92 and it debuted in the Expo.

Secondly, the Compagnie de Danse Japonaise Shohi Kojima.

This is a company in Japan where I have been working for several years as artistic director of the shows.

How many years?

Since '92. Usually I go once a year, in the autumn, depending on what work he has. This year I'm going four times, but it's not usual. His professional background is very impressive; they call him the Japanese gypsy, he's 60 years old, and in Seville and Cádiz he was a major figure, Manuela Carrasco did palmas for him at Los Gallos. When he went back home he refused to work with Japanese artists, always opting for Spaniards. And since he can afford that luxury...

What's the flamenco guitar like in Japan?

Well, there are many guitarists but from a certain system of learning, and that's all, not of composing nor of there being any kind of personal style. Since there are many dancers over there, many, you'd be amazed at what there is, there is a big demand for guitarists of any kind, and anyone who learns a few basics already has a dancer ready to hire him to play whatever. There isn't a very high level.

And yet, paradoxically, it's the strongest flamenco market in the world.

Without a doubt, right up there with Spain, not in quality, but there are more dancers there than here. In Japan flamenco is the big thing.

Why?

I don't know. Actually they're always very taken with ethnic musical forms. They prefer that which is ethnic and authentic to pop culture and the like. In flamenco they have found much strength, the expression, these things have a great impact. The most important area has been in dance, then the guitar, and finally the cante.

Luis Clemente
Translated by Estela Zatania

Photos by Ros Ribas

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