Israel Paz, flamenco cantaor. Interview

“Flamenco isn’t from anywhere”

Silvia Calado. Madrid, November 2006

Though Huelva is still at the top as a breeding ground for flamenco cante, other hotbeds are arising on the map. Israel Paz comes from Madrid. Without a background or race to support him, but with insatiable interest, he has made a place for himself on the circuit little by little and gained experience he now captures on his second album, ‘Corazón flamenco’. With the help of Diego del Morao, the album’s producer, he went all the way to Jerez to record it, to soak up jondura and have himself swaddled by three chic guitars; that of his host plus those of Juan Diego and Antonio Higuero. He achieves his goal with them: “I don’t want to lose the pure side of cante, but I don’t want to be out of touch with today’s flamenco, either”.

What does ‘Corazón flamenco’ offer?

It offers something different to the Israel Paz that’d been heard on the previous album, ‘Del Manzanares al Guadalquivir’, completely renewed in my way of singing and in the songs. I think that’s what people are going to grasp and also that it’s a more up-to-date flamenco. I can tell my age and experience built up from when I did my first album until now; I’ve done a ton of things in between. I have another way of singing, things I’ve been taught, and besides, the songs have been done for me. It’s not like on the first album, which were folk lyrics that’d been done previously by long-time flamenco monsters, but done my way.

Israel Paz (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

You went to Jerez to do the recording. What was all that process like for you?

The truth is that Diego del Morao was the one who told me to record in Jerez, since he thought it’d be easier for me to go there than to bring all the musicians to Madrid. Besides, he told me I was going to be in the right ambience there. And I thought it was great. The composers would send me songs to my house, I’d listen to them by myself, then I’d go to Jerez for three or four days, we’d do a song or two... and that’s how we worked. I got really nervous at the studio, but I had a very good time. Being in Jerez, you smack of flamenco from the moment you get up. And you get to the studio with another spirit; you just take strolls down Francos Street, eat your churros at the market, walk around Arco de Santiago... If I record again, I’d like to do it in Jerez; it’d be a great joy for me.

Moreover, the entire accompaniment is from Jerez. Were you looking for that flavor?

Yeah. Diego del Morao also played for me on the first album and I also had him on this one because he’s a close friend of mine and he’s really good to me. If I come across something I don’t know how to do, I call him up. And he always tells me not to worry, to come to Jerez and “between all of us boys we’re going to make you a kick-ass album”. And they really did, since I love cante from Jerez and what could be better than to have Diego del Morao opening the doors for me, Bo clapping for me, Luis Carrasco composing... Everyone from Jerez is glorious.

You have three really special guitarists from Jerez: Diego del Morao, Juan Diego and Antonio Higuero. What does each of them contribute?

I have to point out my friendship with Diego del Morao and what a monster he is; we’re not going to discover that now. He has all his father’s rhythm and the new forms of youth which he adds. Antonio Higuero, I’d wanted him to play the guitar for me for a great many years. I’d call him up for him to play for me live but he couldn’t. And since I was recording in Jerez, I took advantage and tried again for him to record the seguiriya and the bulería por soleá for me. In the credits where I give thanks on the album I say that “it was a piece of cake for us two”. And the thing is we got to the studio, started recording at five in the afternoon and at seven thirty the two songs had been recorded. He couldn’t believe it himself. He asked me how that could’ve happened. And I didn’t know Juan Diego, but we’d always say “hi” to each other; it seems that we flamencos spot each other by our looks or I don’t know what. I’ve followed him with his album ‘Luminaria’, with Remedios Amaya live when he was José Mercé’s second guitar... And I coincided with him to ask him to take part on the album a few days before recording it; it wasn’t exactly really planned out. He came to the 2006 Caja Madrid Festival to play with La Macanita and I went and talked to him at the hotel. He didn’t give me any ifs, ands or buts, not for being from Madrid or for anything.

Israel Paz (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

What do you ask of a guitarist?

The guitar is fifty percent of a cantaor. If a guitarist doesn’t accompany you the way he should or he starts to do his own thing, that’s bad. The thing is for you to be given the tones and for them to be the way you’re going to sing. What I ask of him is to accompany cante and that’s all. And for him to have his moment, to do his little falseta, but not to do a solo concert where when you bring out the lyrics again, you don’t even remember what it was. Those who have participated on this album agree that what’s needed is rhythm. You don’t need a magnificent falseta; you can sing fine with just rhythm.

And nearly as important as the guitars is the clapping... from Jerez. You even dedicate a song to Bo, don’t you?

I dedicated the bulería por soleá to him because from the first day he heard it, it reminded him a lot of his father at the studio, Manuel Soto Sordera, who to me is the phenomenon who’s best sung the bulería por soleá. The form might remind him of him; the last lyrics of the bulería por soleá with the high notes at the end which his father always used to do. He liked it so much; that’s why I called it ‘Pa mi Bo’. I’ve heard his father a lot of times on tapes and live, so what better an occasion could there be to dedicate it to his son.

How have you balanced the combination of more festive styles and the more orthodox ones in the repertoire?

A flamenco album always has to have tangos, bulerías, alegrías... They’re new songs with their refrains and their stuff, since I think you have to keep up with the times. After that, you can’t lose the pure side of flamenco, like on the previous album. The thing is that on the previous one, the nine songs were with a little guitar and some clapping, and now I’ve only done the seguiriya, bulería por soleá, toná and granaína with piano that way. The rest of them are songs with refrains which come highly determined by the composers, who already go along those lines in advance for you to make sure there are songs for the radio. The important thing is for it to sound flamenco. Cante shouldn’t be cut down because it has choruses. It can have choruses, but if it doesn’t say anything to you... It’s not a question of sticking in choruses just because or because that’s what’s “in” now, but for them to have their flamenco flavor. We’re not going to do flamenco like two hundred years ago.

Though there are songs with choruses, there aren’t a lot of instruments...

Just the piano and a bass in one song. I think it’s turned out really flamenco, which is what I wanted. In time, you don’t know what you might feel like. Right now I’m happy, it’s the album I wanted, for it to sound flamenquito, but with up-to-date lyrics and music. And since they have it all... In Jerez, no matter what you’re looking for, they’ve got it.

Israel Paz (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

Is what you’ve found in Jerez missing in Madrid?

What I’ve noticed is that people are really open there. The flamencos in Jerez are people who give you everything. You get there to record your album, they help you out, you finish recording and instead of letting you go back to your hotel, they take you out; they’re really hospitable. They’re number one as artists and when it comes time to get down to work, but they don’t let you down as people, either. I recommend recording in Jerez.

Do you think it’s harder to be a cantaor in Madrid nowadays?

Being from Madrid, not being a gypsy... are handicaps we were born with, but oh well, what you have to do is show it on stage and on your albums. Flamenco isn’t from anywhere; there are cantaores from Asturias, Barcelona and everywhere. In Madrid you make your way little by little; you have to push hard for it, too.

What references to you have in cante?

From the olden days, I love Mairena, Caracol, Chaqueta... everyone. The truth is that I’ve bought tons of tapes at El Rastro (flea market in Madrid) since I was a little boy. When I was about ten, I used to buy all the tapes that had a black and white cover. One day I got twenty or thirty, when I was starting to study discography. Though they sounded bad, I used to love them. I was also with my time and used to listen to Morente with albums like ‘Negra, si tú supieras’. Right now, a cantaor that stands my hair up on end and I always see every chance I get is José Mercé. He’s a phenomenal cantaor, but he’s an incredible artist. I love his stage know-how; he’s a gentleman. But I like everyone. I love Carmen Linares, who I’ve followed all my life and is a friend of mine. I met her at Sala Revolver when I was about ten years old. I stood out because I was the only kid who was there listening to flamenco. One day I asked her for a seguiriya and when I told her in the dressing room that it’d been me, she couldn’t believe it. From then on, I’ve been friends with her, just like with Mercé, who gives me good advice.

From your point of view, what’s today’s young cante scene like?

	"We also all run the risk of starting to sound like Arcángel. If his style’s successful"

A ton of artists are coming out. Huelva’s producing more cantaores than shrimp. Arcángel, Argentina, Pitingo... You have to start anew. Look at the months we’ve had: La Fernanda died, Turronero, La Paquera... We don’t think so, but in ten or fifteen years the now veteran generation will have to be taken over from. Let’s hope they all last a great many years and we can enjoy them a lot on stages, but you have to bring out new people. There are people with really nice voices, singing really well and with a lot of knowledge. Moreover, there had been an era of ‘camaroneros’ and now there’s a different one, which pays more attention to the old timers. We also all run the risk of starting to sound like Arcángel. If his style’s successful, many might jump on the bandwagon. The important thing is for there to be good records on the market and people who keep on driving flamenco forward.

Do you think young people could be more daring?

If you do pure, traditional flamenco with your guitar and you sing, for example, por malagueñas, granaínas and seguiriyas, the critics say you have to seek out your own personal style. And when you seek out your own style, they tell you you’re forgetting the old ways. So you have to do what you think, what your heart feels. Those who like it, fine. When you don’t take risks you’re criticized for it and when you take risks, too. What are you gonna do? Camarón, Morente, Paco de Lucía... were really cut down in their day, until what they were doing was understood. All in good time. Innovating... you do in time.