José Mercé, flamenco cantaor. Interview
“The good
thing about flamenco
is that everything is yet to be discovered”
Silvia Calado. Madrid, April 2010
Translation: Joseph Kopec
“The album is called ‘Ruido’,
but there’s little noise on it”. And the truth
is that the seventeenth record by José
Mercé is nearly summarized by vocals and
guitar. But what vocals and what guitars! The new encounter
with producer Isidro Muñoz has made the Jerez-born
cantaor take a step further in performing. And each of the
four guitarists who have accompanied him has made him “not
sing differently, but feel differently”. Different
bulerías, jondo songs, rumba colombiana, “strange
tangos”, alegrías with a trademark of their
own and lyrics which are the envy of Sabina… are part
of this new repertoire. And as a finishing touch, a “tiny”
tribute to Miguel Hernández, a poet who he adores
for his depth. A quality which not only his cante has too,
but also his regard… and even the words he utters.
What are the people who listen
to ‘Ruido’ going to find?
I think that except for noise, they’re
going to find a bit of everything. It’s an album where
there are tangos, bulerías, soleá, alegrías…
They’re really different songs to the ones I’ve
done so far. I’m always going to emphasize that this
record is a musical gem for the guitars. It’s a disc
without many instruments, a little more sober album than
the previous ones, but with the same dimension of open flamenco,
of flamenco for young people, of flamenco which reaches
out more. I’m happy and I hope it reaches my crowd
and they enjoy it.
And the new crowd …
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“I’d
say there’s a José Mercé whose very
life it has cost him to take his voice up to heaven
and then back down to earth!”
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When I say my crowd, it’s the new
crowd. We’re lucky now to have young people in the
flamenco world. Fifteen years back, young people didn’t
come to flamenco, I don’t know why. They come nowadays
without any kind of hang-ups.
Is there a new José Mercé
within this album?
I’d say there’s a José
Mercé whose very life it has cost him to take his
voice up to heaven and then back down to earth! That might
be why I named it ‘Ruido’ (‘Noise’),
because the songs have wonderful music, they have divine
tones… And it’s a really hard disc to do live;
I realize it in the concerts. It’s continually playing
with really complicated tonalities and you have to be careful.
I hope that, as the great bullfighters say, it finds its
place. In fact, it’s been quite hard for us to make
the album, but when you finish it, you see that at least
you’ve managed for it to be different from the previous
ones.
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José Mercé,
'Ruido'
(Photo EMI Music Spain) |
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Has the new encounter been positive
with Isidro as producer?
It really has. Both Isidro and I really
felt like making a new record together and we’ve been
lucky to be able to do so. The way the record companies
are right now and the way things are now, nothing’s
selling, we’ve been allowed to make the album the
same old way, live. Having Isidro do a song, I sing it,
he seals it and sends it to the musician… we don’t
go for that. We go for each musician being there, sweating
it out too.
The guitars are really personal…
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“Each
guitarist has his soul in his closet and each one doesn’t
make you sing differently, but feel differently”
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What can I say about Moraíto
Chico’s guitar that you don’t all know already?
I think he’s the best guitarist for accompaniment
nowadays. Then there’s Diego del Morao, who I think
is the greatest in this era. That kid has incredible skill,
feeling and soniquete. And besides being from his father’s
school, I think he’s already in another dimension.
Dani de Morón is also a promising kid who’s
going to give people something to talk about. And we have
Juan
Carlos Romero, who’s a fabulous guitarist, he
has a great deal of passion for guitar. We’ve been
lucky to have those four wonderful guitarists. We have undoubtedly
the best bass player in this country, Manolo Nieto. The
one who brings the tangos ‘De rima en rama’
to life is him. There’s some percussion, some little
thing and the Cuban choruses, which are really complicated…
a different sense of rhythm. It’s called ‘Ruido’,
but there’s little noise on it.
José Mercé,
'Ruido'
(Photo EMI Music Spain) |
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And does each guitarist make you
sing differently?
Logically. Each guitarist has his soul
in his closet and each one doesn’t make you sing differently,
but feel differently.
What does Isidro contribute as
a lyricist?
Those plays on words are all his own. What
he does is really hard. Working with him is wonderful because
he makes you work more than anybody. But if he does ten
songs they’re no good for just anyone. These songs
are for José and he works on them thinking of me.
The songs come out of four phrases and he brings four different
ones out of each of them to see which one is better for
us or which one we like more.
What the lyrics say is different
to ‘Confí de fuá’…
They’ve come out like that, they’re
more about humanity. The nice thing is that it all comes
up. Isidro is never predisposed, he never tells you he has
a song, but rather “I have something over there”.
And that “something” is two phrases and once
we’re there, we get down to work. And it’s the
best way to make an album. It’s more laborious, costlier,
more time, but the truth is that you walk into the studio
fresh because you don’t know what you’re going
to do… you see how it sounds and you starting putting
together the songs from there. And the entire disc has a
meaning; we were really careful about that.
Is it hard for you to make those
lyrics yours which he offers you?
Not at all, since we’ve known each
other for a great many years. Isidro knows what I like and
what I don’t like. He even crosses out a phrase straight
off if he suspects that I’m not going to like it.
And he’s usually right and a different phrase is done.
There are really forceful phrases
on the album…
Yes, there are some which… For example,
the lyrics to ‘Contigo’ are marvelous. I have
an anecdote with Sabina. We were in Chipiona at a restaurant
having lunch with the family and I told him I was going
to hum a song. When the phrase came “December is in
the street, spring within”, “Who’s that
by?! That’s mine!”. It annoyed him that it wasn’t
his. That, well sung on stage with guitar and vocals, I
swear that it stands your hair up on end. But you can’t
imagine singing it on stage. I tell Isidro to stay home
and take it easy, and I’ll go up on stage, ha ha ha.
In ‘Amanecer’, Camarón
is quoted…
We don’t know why. It came out like
that; it isn’t premeditated. It all comes out as you
go along. The lyrics to ‘Amanecer’ are delightful,
but they’re going to drive everyone crazy.
José Mercé,
'Ruido'
(Photo EMI Music Spain) |
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The album is varied as far as cante
styles…
‘Fe’, where La
Tana does the choruses for me, I think are really musical
bulerías. I don’t know what rhythm ‘Amanecer’
is in… I don’t know, like tangos… but
what tangos? Something strange… it drives me crazy.
‘La llave’ is a more
festive bulería…
It’s more ours, more from Jerez,
but with Isidro’s trademark in those tones…
And there are some really peculiar
alegrías…
Oh, the alegrías. I’d say
that Isidro is the creator of the alegrías. If you
look at all the albums we’ve made, the alegrías
that are there are unbelievable. The refrain is… And
the lyrics to “aquí vive Rosa” are really
good. I’m really happy to have worked with him again.
And do you know the bad thing about all of this? We fight
a lot, we have a really good time and in the end, I have
to admit he’s right.
The soleá makes a reference
to more classical cante…
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“Flamenco’s
base is so magnificent that you have to draw on those
sources” |
The soleá is a brushstroke, it’s
recorded at Isidro’s house, it’s something really
homemade, as if we were here among friends. They’re
three bits of lyrics por soleá which I think give
the album a really good little edge.
Are you still studying old-time
cantaores?
Logically, I have to do so. Flamenco’s
base is so magnificent that you have to draw on those sources.
We have an impressive base. The other day I was listening
to the era of Pastora, Manuel, El Gloria, Chacón…
and you realize what a great personality there was in those
people. They didn’t seek applause, they used to do
the cantes the way they were; no more, no less. I miss that.
I’d have liked to live in that era of cante.
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José Mercé,
'Ruido'
(Photo EMI Music Spain) |
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And they were daring; Pastora also
had a duty to her public…
I think Pastora was the first daring person
in this world. I think that she was a magnificent revolutionary
in that era, being the longest and best cantaora. The other
day listening to some alegrías by Pastora,
I said my God, how can that woman sing like that? Go back
in time to that period from now. Who says he’s innovative
nowadays? Someone tells you that a cantaor is innovating
nowadays… What’s he innovating? For Pastora
used to do what he’s doing fifty years ago. How can
you be so simple? It’s something that you sense, the
way to be, the way to sing. They aren’t doing little
trills, or seeking applause, or doing a six-hour part. Anyone
who doesn’t listen to that and doesn’t keep
on studying… The good thing about flamenco is that
everything is yet to be discovered; it’s fresh, lively
music. That’s flamenco’s grandeur.
And those who say that everything’s
been invented?
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“In
flamenco, two plus two equals… three and a half!”
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Those are crazy. There’s no sheet
music in flamenco, flamenco’s alive, the guy doesn’t
come here with a wand and that’s written there for
your whole life and you can’t get away from that.
In flamenco, two plus two equals… three and a half!
That’s the good thing, that it’s fresh, lively
music and we don’t cling to the staff.
And to finish, ‘Nanas de
la cebolla’, a tribute to poet Miguel Hernández.
Why him?
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“And
what they say now about singer-songwriters… I
think we flamencos were the first ones to have done
that”
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We’re remembering the best poet,
at least in my opinion. In the year ’71 I was in Buenos
Aires and I was extremely lucky enough to buy Miguel’s
complete works, which you couldn’t do here in Spain.
I’ve become one of Miguel Hernández’s
greatest fans since then. We’ve paid him a little
tribute here compared to what he deserves. I think he’s
one of the deepest poets. Miguel didn’t dress himself
up, or seek praise, or seek glory; what he writes is his
life. A man who dies so young and the only thing he lives
is misfortune; he doesn’t have a moment of happiness.
The lullaby is just a little tribute which includes the
collaboration of Pasión Vega, who I’m really
grateful to for having been on the album, and Isidro’s
nephew, Carlos Sanlúcar. It has a curious counterpoint
of voices. And we’ve done a version our way and I
hope it reaches people.
Why that poem?
Because it’s a really important moment
in Miguel’s life; it’s when he find out that
the only thing his wife is eating is onion and his son is
there and the only thing he’s sucking is onion and
blood. I think it’s a really important poem by Miguel.
Everything he writes is important and he isn’t an
ornamental poet; he writes what happens to him daily. There
are phrases by Miguel that… “Today I feel disheartened,
I feel like ripping my heart right out and putting it under
my shoe”. Who says that, my God!
And does his feeling go well with
flamenco? Lorca is sung so much…
Yes, Lorca might be more popular. Of course
he’s very important. I can’t help that I like
Miguel more; he’s a great deal deeper. And what they
say now about singer-songwriters… I think we flamencos
were the first ones to have done that. Flamenco cantaores
are always sentencing and contributing with their lyrics.
The pop and singer-songwriter fad comes in and now they’re
the protest singers and the ones who vindicate, when the
first ones who have vindicated and who have protested are
us flamencos. Always.
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