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Getting back to the album, there are touches of other instruments.

The sevillanas needed a transition and I wanted an instrument that didn't get too far away from the guitar itself. I chose an ancestor of the guitar: the lute. The lute seemed suitable to me, which, by the way, Dorantes lent to me because it was impossible to find one and I'm very grateful to him.

Juan Carlos Romero

And the gospel voices are an attention-grabber. How did that collaboration come about?

The gospel voices are in the rumba and in a transition there is to one of the sevillanas. I found them in Madrid and it attracted their attention that somebody from flamenco would want to have them. And they got excited about it. I think they were very happy with the work. You hear things that are around you because you're not deaf and you can't ignore the information reaching you. I've always really liked working with voices. I'd already done something like that at the Granada Music and Dance Festival with Miguel Poveda, Marina Heredia and Arcángel. Here, I thought that the closest thing to flamenco was black and it seemed like a good way to embellish the rumba. Normally, I allow myself that sort of license in songs that don't have flamenco transcendence. That doesn't mean it can't be used in a soleá, but as a general rule, I don't consider it. I still like for the soleá to sound like a soleá.

Regarding the use of other instruments, Pedro Sierra recently stated that the time had come for flamenco to return to itself, Gerardo Núñez has performed alone with his guitar at the Seville Bienal... What is your opinion on the use of other instruments in flamenco guitar?

I think that, for example, my album is quite a reserved album in that aspect. It doesn't have anything; just guitar, percussions and clapping, if we exclude one part of the rumba. I don't ask myself that question: shall I use instruments or not? It seems a little artificial to me. The composition can ask you for a kind of accompaniment or not, but it can't be a prior condition to the composition itself. Since that has been done over the years whimsically and as a trend, now the pendulum is swinging the other way: we're now stopping using instruments. I think it depends on what the composition itself demands; it's not something artificial that you can put on top of it.

	"We never should have stopped looking back; we're guilty of being "modern""

Flamenco, in itself, doesn't need it and I don't deny those types of adventures, but you have to do them sensibly. The compositions themselves have their dynamics and you can realize that they lack something... or not. But I don't start off by saying “I'm going to make a record with violins”. How can you know if you don't even have the record yet? If you focus the composition according to that concept, that will no longer be seen as something artificial; it'll make sense. What I do think about is that we never should have stopped looking back; we're guilty of being "modern". Nowadays Juan Talega is more modern than most of what's being done; a toná is more modern, more in keeping with contemporary music than everything else.

It seems as though musical trends reach flamenco with a certain delay...

We have the sensation that we're discovering things, but the world has already discovered them. Now we get there, we include them and we think we've discovered something. And that happens because flamenco has always been very closed within itself. But really all the traditional cantes are better than all the ones that have been invented afterwards.

And if we go a bit further, also the lyrics, don't you think?

Juan Carlos Romero

The lyrics, I'll tell you. They're infinitely better, but not because I look at it from the viewpoint of purity or tradition, but rather due to flamenco character in all aspects. Nearly everything is better than what's been done afterwards. And there was a naturalness that you don't have nowadays. Those lyrics say so much because the one saying them isn't trying to be a poet and nowadays the one doing the lyrics wants to be a poet and most of the time what's done is nonsense, pretentiousness. And that's truly uttered with the naturalness with which a man from the country says things, with that depth, with that clarity. And that's why those lyrics are so very good. Tell me who now says “I saw her cry for another and I who love her so much have to comfort her”. We're trying to be poets and poets are trying to be like popular flamencos. Lorca used to say he'd give anything to write something like that, but to do that he'd have had to unlearn.

We've been guilty of being hicks on many occasions, thinking we're discovering something, making something progress. And most of the time we're simply like a child who discovers something new and wants to bring it into his world. But we include it as something artificial, simply because we like it. And liking doesn't guarantee anything. Just because you like it doesn't mean our music can absorb it. In art and in life, the hard thing is to say no, which is surely the most important word in our vocabulary. And it's not easy to give up something you like. There are flourishes I've gotten rid of because I understood that they were getting away from the toque I was performing. And if I want to do what I feel like, I don't have to give it taranta; you're free to do what you like. Just because it's in a tango rhythm doesn't mean it's a tango. All of that's a little confused nowadays. People think an alegría is an alegría because it's in major key or in alegría rhythm. And there have to be more ingredients. I think it's one of the greatest flaws I find in all of us, the lack of flamenco character, that spirit. And it's not a lack of freedom, but rather a lack of knowledge of the roots, but not of intellectual knowledge, but of intimate, visceral knowledge.

And you're already working on new projects. Miguel Poveda tipped us off that you two are making an album...

We're trying to make an album. We're already looking at some songs. We don't want to get into a lot of messes beyond making a flamenco album with new compositions seeking, simply, flamenco. We're not going to seek out any question of commerciality or anything; just to make an album that we like. And Miguel Poveda is at a very good moment.

The truth is that I think we're going to be able to make an album without too many external conditions, which is something. I've done what I wanted on my album because everything's there, for better or for worse, because I wanted it that way. I didn't have to give in on anything. After all, the record world is an industry; they invest their money and if they don't recover it, they close. And if you aren't profitable, there aren't any more records. But it's a business devoted to culture, not cookies. You've got to be a business but bearing in mind that we're talking about art, culture.

And despite how hard the record industry makes it for them, does that following it seeks still exist?

I think that following, that audience, has been a bit sidelined in the media. It has no choice. And I know that if they knew all this existed, they'd go crazy. I think that in that aspect, there are a great many good musicians who are being wasted. And not just in flamenco.

I myself could have been not flamenco; the thing is that you're born in a home where your family is into it. You're taught it, you grow up with it and your musical anxiety is going to come out through what you've experienced since you were a kid, but it's likely that if I'd been born in a family where they listened to classical music or jazz, I'd have devoted myself to classical music or jazz. What I do think is that I'd have been a musician.

Juan Carlos Romero

Arcángel, Carmen Linares, now Miguel Poveda... You're a musician who promotes collaborations with other artists.

And I've always been free to choose who to collaborate with. I've never had any commitment to anyone; it's never been a matter of obligation. I also spent a period playing with Manolo Sanlúcar, for quite a few years. Afterwards producing Arcángel's albums arose, previously I'd done that of El Pele, now I'm doing Miguel Poveda's, on other occasions I've done things for Enrique Morente, Carmen Linares... I've gotten involved with those who, due to the circumstances, life has had me cross paths with. Things happen and that's it; I don't know, whatever happens to come up.

And not just flamenco, right?

I did things with the group Alameda. I've always been in flamenco; that came up. It's always been a type of music related to the south; they wanted to have a flamenco guitar and I participated with them. I've also taken part in Tino di Geraldo's recordings that I thought were worthwhile. Not long ago, I worked on the album ‘Territorio Flamenco’ with Arcángel, Carmen Linares, Rancapino and Estrella Morente. They're participations that I like because another vision of those songs had to be given, re-harmonizing them, giving them a vision closer to flamenco.

I like tackling less orthodox projects, but I love playing a soleá just like always, because you miss that sound. I've never had dilemmas about tradition and the avant-garde. I've been so convinced that what's there is tradition, that not only is it very good but also the base allowing us to go on creating sensibly, that I'd never have allowed myself to do without it. I'm a tradition lover, although it might seem to the contrary. At home, I listen a lot to all the old albums by cantaores, by guitarists. And analyzing with a musical perspective, they're real gems. They're so well-made... But it's logical now that things aren't understood the same way. They're not nominal compositions, but rather are made with the sediments of time and which brilliant performers have shaped. And nowadays you sit down and compose a soleá, the times are different and things take you there. And it's a very delicate act. When they say there are too many notes, you should ask which one to drop. I'm fed up with racking my brain and I don't know which one isn't needed.

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