The choreographer: "There isn't much musicality
to flamenco now;
there's too much cajón and flamboyance"
Manolo Marín (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)
As a choreographer, do you think that any dancer can develop that facet?
No, not just any dancer, and the same thing holds true for teaching. You have
to know a lot, but you need to have seen a lot. Some people are good at teaching,
but I think its very important for a teacher or choreographer to have stage experience.
Nowadays, lots of people graduate from the conservatory-some don't even get that
far-, and they start teaching with no experience as an artist, without even having
performed onstage. You don't have to be famous, but you need stage experience,
and you need to have seen a lot, because there are flamenco artists that don't
know how to arrange a number themselves. They're good dancers, but they might
not understand how time works, or when they should add something, or take something
out.
Arranging a dance number is more than directing; it isn't just a question of
steps and turns. It has to be nice to listen to. Flamenco is losing some of these
things; a tremolo, a falseta. It has to appeal to the senses; to your ears.
Nowadays everything uses percussion. There isn't much musicality to flamenco now;
there's too much cajón and flamboyance. At times, it sounds more
like African music, with drums. The important thing is to spend your life taking
things in, and I've been going to concerts since I was a kid. You can't just stay
in your village, your city or your neighborhood.
| "I like watching because you can learn from anything,
even if it's bad" |
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You have to take in lot of things, and not only flamenco. Is that it?
Right. There are things here that some people thought were original, and I
saw them in Paris or London 40 years ago, in a musical, for example. Like when
the artists would come onstage from their seats out in the audience. I remember
when they did that in everything, from vaudeville to music hall numbers. When
I was 16-and that was some time ago-, I used to go to the Paris opera house to
see ballet. I'd get tickets for the cheapest seats in the uppermost balcony, because
I couldn't afford anything else. Today, if I'm in Seville, or here, in Madrid,
I go to see everything I can. I like watching because you can learn from anything,
even if it's bad.
There isn't much coordination between dancers and percussionists. Do you
think they're just avoiding the issue?
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"What I really like is less noise and more music"
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With all the cajones and noise onstage nowadays, they're missing the biggest
thing, which is palmas. Flamenco already has percussion in the dancer's feet.
Sometimes you'll see 20 people onstage, and, even with those floor mics they use
nowadays you can't hear their percussion, which is the most important thing. You
have to have palmeros for flamenco. I'm not against some of these things,
but they're not flamenco. I don't mind percussion at some point in the show, but
I like hearing just a guitar with singing. What I really like is less noise and
more music.
What role does the singer play in a dance arrangement?
Flamenco is dancing, guitar and singing; the three things. Dancers can do all
kinds of difficult things with their feet. They don't seem to listen to what the
singer's doing, but they should. You shouldn't bury the singer under a ton of
footwork, making him start and stop at every syllable, just to make your dancing
look more dramatic. Let him sing the verse all the way through, and then dance
all you want to. You have to be respectful and listen to the singing and the guitar.
There are times when they have to take the lead, and you have to shut down to
some kind of minimum, so that you're not just standing there, but the audience
has to be able to appreciate what they're doing. Then, when they've finished,
tear up the stage if you want to. A dancer has to set aside some time and space
for arm work, for moments of music, instead of trying to do a thousand things
at once, jumping all over the stage, with all that body- slapping.
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"If they don't like singing, they don't like flamenco"
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A lot of dancers don't care much for singing. Some students of mine tell me
that they don't like singing, especially my Japanese students. I tell them that
if they don't like singing, they don't like flamenco. I prefer dancing to singing
and guitar, but dancing wouldn't exist without the other two. You have to listen.
People usually just listen to the latest recordings, but you have to listen to
singers from the past, like La Niña de los Peines, Pepe Pinto, Mairena,
all of those people, even though they're not around any more. You have to start
there, and not with the latest tanguito or bulería that someone's
recorded. You have to do some investigation. The guitar has come a long way, but
it's the same story: If you ask someone to play soleá por bulerías
or something, that's fine, but if you ask them to play a tanguillo or a farruca,
they've got no idea. If you're doing a solo number or making a recording, you
might want to make it more commercial, but you have to know about the history
of flamenco, not just Camarón and Paco de Lucía, Paco de Lucía
and Camarón. Mind you, I think they're both great artists, but you have
to go back a bit further.
What are the precepts involved in the choreography of flamenco dance?
Until recently, there was no choreography of flamenco dance. Dancers would
work things out in their own way, but knowing how to use spaces and silences is
another matter. Arranging flamenco dance means arranging the music. I don't deal
with the notes that are played, but I say, "I want it to swell here, and
I want it to stop here." For example, the patterns of a soleá already
exist, but you have to do some arrangement. Movement is normally the hardest thing
to work with; knowing how to move people, which is why we have general tendencies
in choreography. Things get more and more complicated. Everything used to be more
linear, like the old revues, with everybody facing the audience. There's less
symmetry used now. Everything used to be symmetrical: four over here and four
over there. I like classic ballet, but it gets boring because the placement is
always symmetrical. Contemporary dance can be boring, because there's a lot of
nonsense, but it can also be very original and interesting.
Next...
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