María Pagés, bailaora and choreographer. Interview

“Flamenco has to command the highest level of recognition; it has nothing to prove anymore”

Silvia Calado. Madrid, June 2004
Translation: Gary Cook

María Pagés is working toward a goal: to raise the prestige of flamenco to a pinnacle within the world of internacional dance. And she's well on the way. At the Joyce Theater in New York the crème de la crème of the profession fell to its knees every night for a week. The National Theater in Taiwan had a "Full House" sign up for six days. And she experienced the same sweet smell of success in England, Mexico, Italy... Her next international date, for the third season running, will be in Japan. Audiences in the land of the rising sun will be graced with the première of ‘Canciones antes de una guerra’, a socially committed show in which the dancer and choreographer from Seville reveals her latest experiments.

María Pagés

How was the Joyce Theater experience?

It was a decision on the part of the company to take our show to a specific theater in New York. We'd been to New York plenty of times, to revered venues, but we never felt we quite got the recognition we deserved. We didn't want to go to just anyplace, nor just for a short stint - we wanted to do a week at a venue I always loved, where Baryshnikov danced, as well as everybody who is anybody on the dance scene. Flamenco had to be in there too, with a Spanish company and one which represented the current state of the art. And I think we managed to get people's attention and rally the world of dance around us.

And it was risky taking one of your own productions, that isn't something you find every day.

There was a lot at stake, most of all the huge amount of work and the company's dedication. And we're really happy. It could have all gone wrong, but it turned out really well. I mean being in the same theater as Bill T. Jones, Ángel Corella and half the American Ballet in the stalls was really gratifying. And we danced for very different audiences, from children to elderly people. The Joyce organized different activities that gave us room to explain what we're about and how our projects came to be. It treats dance in a very open-minded way. One day fifty girls came and they sent me the pictures they painted. We put them on display back in Spain at the Teatro de Torrelodones [where they're the resident company] and the kids there also want to do paintings for me now. Everything's interlinked; you get to see that everything has its repercussions.

Does flamenco dance have barriers to break down on that side of the Atlantic?

In the U.S.A. there's still a heated debate. It's hard to break onto the scene. That's why you have to put a stronger emphasis on how you present things so that they'll understand them too. I think they interpret flamenco not as a global artform, but rather as kind of a niche. Flamenco has to command the highest level of recognition; it has nothing to prove anymore. And that was what playing the Joyce was all about. I think the Spanish Premio Nacional de Danza award also went some way toward illustrating that, creatively speaking, flamenco is getting recognition. You shouldn't just give audiences the same old formula they ask you for, but offer your own formula - don't just leave that to a handful of leading artists or choreographers.

How were you received in Taiwan?

We were at the National Theater; it's unbelievable, like a gigantic pagoda. I'll tell you, we played there six days straight with every seat in the house taken, and the following week the Taiwan National Dance Company went and only played three. In a venue that's one of the most prestigious theaters in the world. All the places we're asked to perform are on that level. We're going to the Berlin Opera House and the Hannover Opera House too. We're already on that circuit of superior venues.

	María Pagés

Do you see China as a potential market for flamenco?

Well, Taiwan is nothing like China as most people know it. It's an island, there's a different standard of living, a different political regime, they live a more western lifestyle. Although soon we'll be visiting Beijing for the first time. It's nothing like Japan either - people are different, they have a different attitude, a different way of doing things, and a different way of looking at things. I didn't expect the reaction we got from Taiwanese audiences, mostly female, who've been following me for a while now. Oh yeah, and talking of followers... I now have a fan club in the States! Unbelievable. There are people from California, from Florida, from New York and from other cities too. They swap photos, they tell each other about new features on the website... They're amazing.

So the tour continues in Japan...

That's right. First we're going to Paris, and after that we're off to Japan again with ‘Canciones antes de una guerra’. We did an outline of the production in Torrelodones, and we'll present the complete version in Japan. It's our third season in a row in Japan - we took ‘La Tirana’, ‘El Perro Andaluz’ and ‘Flamenco Republic’. We're going to different theaters, so we'll also be performing Flamenco Republic on the second leg of our visit.

Did you have to back up the show with extra explanatory material to take it overseas?

We already have a system worked out. For example, the Japanese shout “Publicity!” And the program is already drawn up with translations of the songs most deeply-rooted in Spanish popular culture. I think for ‘Nana de la cebolla’ by Miguel Hernández there's a simultaneous translation. And it also has a very special set, full of lights, and with projections of the paintings by the girls from New York, giving the impression you're in a child's bedroom. Everything's been taken care of. Then there are songs that don't need anything, like ‘Imagine’, which is pretty self-explanatory. There are moments that get a little more pizzazz, and lighting that's a little more glitzy. It's an experiment, and right now nobody knows how it's going to work out.

‘Canciones antes de una guerra’ has a clear social message. Do you think the arts should be more committed in these times?

Art is a necessity. Art reflects the moment the world is going through and I felt that need. Other times I didn't feel that need, I don't want to be seen as a protest artist. But I don't think we artists can live in a bubble, isolated from what's going on in the world. Our mission is to express a sentiment, a situation. It really was necessary - I couldn't just sit back and say nothing about what's happening in the world.

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