"To tell the truth, I went back to dancing to recover my father's name". And that's exactly what happened, almost by accident, when he came of age, four years after quitting. Ever since then, circumstances lead to one thing and then another "little by little": teaching, working abroad, a tablao in Japan, Seville's 1992 and 2000 editions of the Bienal, Trilogía... a nascent company. The dancer from Granada claims to have freed himself along the way from the Andrés Marín Sr. connection and opted for a "very personal line, very me, because of my way of seeing it and of conceiving it".

Photo: Anahí Cármody

And is that the flamenco of the future?

You can't really pigeon-hole dancing in present, past and future. That's absurd. But it's true that the future is more open to certain things, there are more possibilities of movement and expression. I hope the future will be synonymous with freedom of expression, something which exists all too little nowadays. Today no one speaks out in case they make a mistake. And they just keep repeating the same things from Moses, but two thousand years later. But you end up badly... you're just an old man who is a child. And you can talk the talk but know nothing more than an old man, because that's a lack of respect. You know something? I'm 31 and my father is 67 and each one has his place. I can't make shut my father up.

How does Andrés Marín dance in the opinion of Andrés Marín?

I dance the way I feel. I like cante a lot, I like music, I like the combination. But I don't like flashy junk. And I don't like phoniness either. Express yourself as you are, but don't try to fool people. I like dance that comes from the gut, that hurts. I like real dancing. I that doesn't mean to dance better or worse than anyone, but to dance being true to who you are. For me that merits more respect. I don't know what I contribute. I dance to the music, I think about it a lot, I'm concerned about the poetic verses. Each year that goes by I like minimalist things better... less is more. There was a time that I had to fill in every little spot. There wasn't a single empty moment. Know what I mean?

Where do think flamenco dance should be headed?

Towards personality and freedom of expression. If you don't have any personality, you don't speak to me. And if you don't have freedom of expression and you're making a copy of a Velázquez, well you're nothing but a hick. Velázquez was a master. What you can't do is paint in the year 2000 with motifs from the year 500, because that can only go wrong. You have to paint about today and see things as they are now. Trying not to destroy, but rather cherish, caress. In order to dance flamenco you don't have to wear a polkadot scarf, you don't have to be a non-gypsy trying to be a gypsy because that makes you a vulgar puppet. Every individual does his things and you have to respect them... that's my way of thinking.

But don't you think that too many things get in the way between personality and freedom of expression?

I don't see any obstacles, what I find is closed minds. The worst obstacle in the world is ignorance. Many people speak without knowledge. They never delve deep enough. They judge you by your appearance. That's where the phoniness is. Look, the typical flamenco costume was what they wore in that era. Today you can't go out wearing a short jacket like Curro Jiménez. Come on man, let's stop being silly, let's get real.

The fact that a flamenco artist such as Javier Latorre should sign a manifesto for dance, indicates, at the very least, a moment of upheaval. Changes, experimentation... disorientation?

I believe that in life there are always some lost souls, there has always been movement, there has always been change, and there has always been everything. If we get involved in the movements and all that, we all get fatter, even the magazines. We're just stirring up silliness, because in the end, to each his own... I think that flamenco is on the commercial upswing, it's abusing its commercial appeal. And the fact is, when you create art, with good intentions, from within, with an honest artistic concept, exploring, that's going to cause a stir for sure, but it will never put food on the table. I prefer that to getting up on stage to jump around.

Does that mean that you have to jump through the commercial ring?

I'm not going to do any such thing. Because I make ends meet every month, thank god. Each year I see it more clearly, before, I might have considered it at a given time, but not any more. When I was young I used to say, okay, "why is that guy up there, while me or someone else who dances better, isn't?" Circumstances, because he knows people, because he has friends, he's involved in the politics... All kinds of things we have no control over. Once you've got your name people come knocking, but it's hard to make a name.

And with all they say about how everything has been invented in flamenco, how can you innovate?

The only way to innovate within flamenco is by being personal. The personal way of innovating is by being yourself. You don't have to invent anything, you have to dance as you are, you have to paint yourself as you are, you have to walk the way the you are... A lot people think this or that because you dance modern... I don't dance modern, that's just what people think. I probably dance more old-style than a lot of people, because I get everything from what already came before. Things aren't done just to be copied.

On what level do you situate technique?

Technique is important for big spaces, in order to have control of your body, so you don't fall down on stage or stick your finger in your eye, and to not be repetitious or reiterative. But technique is at the service of art. And you realize more and more that technique is only worth what it's worth. You can't forget that. And more so for those of us who have to continue stuyding because new people are coming up who dance very well. Know what I mean?

What I see is that people are very afraid when it comes time to express themselves... monkey see, monkey do. You go to Holland, to New York, to Stockholm... you walk down the street and you can't believe it because people have another personality and a kind of courage. And you see someone in the street with the most outrageous hat in the world. Or look at Prince, who's really got class, but they see that over here and people laugh because they haven't got any respect, they're ignorant. But not only the flamencos, but people in general, the collective. Most of the people who go to the Bienal de Flamenco haven't got a clue. And I'm sure that here (we're on the terrace of the bar Sirenas on the Alameda, Seville's plaza which years ago was a hotbed of flamenco, reduced now to a show-window for alternative lifestyles, a place where this artist who harmonizes with the space-time continuum can fit right in) I can start playing palmas and you can be sure that everyone will join in. And that's the least of it, the thing is they'll start talking to you about flamenco and teach you something too, know what I mean? People have no guts. Always worried about what others will think. That's how I see it.

Photo: Anahí Cármody

What elements foreign to flamenco are you in favor of?

I incorporate a viola. I like everything which is added. People come around with their "but...but...", but if you don't have the courage to do things, then you complain and get embittered. It depends on how you put the instruments in, how they sound, the thrust. It's either well-done or poorly-done. It depends on who's doing it and how they do it. I'm open to everything. I see flamenco in everything, I can't separate it from anything. I don't separate art from anything. Michael Jackson is just as flamenco as the most flamenco person over here. Because I view flamenco as a kind of energy, I don't see flamenco as a style. The other stuff I see as a copy. Flamenco is a way of being and feeling for me. As far as I'm concerned the others aren't flamenco, they're people who study flamenco, and they're the ones who make it, but they get there backwards... that's the bad news about this.

I'm not very tolerant of the kind of dancing of jumping around and crowd-pleasing. To do a movement which is preconceived to please the audience, that's the worst thing. It doesn't reach me. You shouldn't notice the movement, it has to be just the right moment. You can't be premeditating the air. Preconceiving the little tricks, that's phony. I like serious dance, straightforward dance. And moreso when it's those things that are done by people who did them without thinking, and there you are thinking it all out. Because the beauty is in the unevenness, the virtue is in the necessity. All the rest is academic, plastic, pretty, you sell it and make money... and there's never any problem because everyone says "ole".

Draw a framework...

The theater. That's my place. As far as a dance, what I like best is seguiriya. And I also like tangos a lot. Soleá por bulería is where I feel the best rhythmically. I also like to sing a lot. Tangos are more femenine than masculine, but it's more difficult for a man to dance than a woman. Because that's where you can see if he's gay. The nice thing is to dance tangos like an old lady, but still being masculine, without losing yourself. And the difficult thing. In seguiriya you're dancing the song, and if anyone dares to say anything you pull your gun on them, it's too personal. For example, soleá is a more concealed kind of dance, more easygoing, kind of leaner, and seguiriya is more from the gut. And there aren't too many dancers who dance seguiriya. They dance it, yes, but who really communicate in seguiriyas... It's one thing to dance, and another to communicate. We all dance. It's very difficult to get yourself together, mark out a dance, and make it hurt...

And then, musically, l like to immerse myself in my heart. And, as far as stage settings, the simplest...nothing. Lights, but again, from the heart. Everything done honestly. Like I said, every year it's clearer, everything is less music, and more atmosphere, or "aire". It's been such a long time now with Canito (the guitarist who accompanies him) that we both set our minds to it and search for things that you can more or less like, but that no one does. Nobody's going in that direction right now. And that's also good, to be working but forming a team.

What about the muses?

I try to take as little from others as possible. I learn from everyone, both good and bad artists. I'm like a sponge. But I always try to maintain my personality. No matter how much I like it, I make sacrifices and I go for it, I work it. Everything. I absorb things from a painting, or I see Michael Jackson or Prince, any kind of singing. Or maybe I see you walking down the street and suddenly I see a line that gets me and I grab it. Because people express themselves walking, no? Well that's the problem, that we don't dance expressing ourselves. I think about art and about supermarkets. In the stores and in the boutiques. You can't go and shop in the Corte Inglés or in Zara the way you would in Versace. I feel it in my soul. People have made a dance prototype, you put an arm like this and then like that so it doesn't get in the way... do you get what I mean?

Personality. Trying not to be a carbon copy so that we can all be different and we can have fun watching each other. I might get things from watching a video of Greek dancing... dancing is dancing. When we start getting away from each other, we're on the wrong track. You can't dance like you're in an army barracks. Dancing isn't military...classical yes, flamenco no. You have to adapt it to a rhythm, and a taste.

What is your perception of audiences?

I like the way flamenco comes across abroad, because it's received with innocence. Here it's received with a desire to understand and be know-it-alls... and that isn't knowing. You need only to watch television at any hour of the day... it's all garbage. Culturally, Andalusia is cow manure. And the ones over forty, worse, unless they've had a very good education, but halfway through, they weren't allowed to study. What people really like is the soap operas, telegarbage. Come on man. Right. At this stage of the game, we're not that stupid. Well, and the young people... There are some that are okay, but others, they're more conservative than my father.

If you were to set forth a professional challenge, what would it be?

I haven't accomplished everything, but that's a bit much. Whatever comes my way, I'm going to take care of it. I went back to dancing because my parents quit dancing and for me it was a great satisfaction to put a little lustre back into his name. The challenge is to work with all my dignity. But there's a lot of envy if you don't go where they want. I live in my own world, and I think it's better that way. I understand people, but people don't understand me. That's good because I'm left to do my own thing. I know what the film's about, but I don't get involved in the film... because I don't feel like it. I've got my own movie, my short.

Okay, now I'll be the journalist... what do you think about this flamenco?

Candela Olivo
Translation: Estela Zatania

More information about Andrés Marín

- Review of "Trilogía" in the Bienal 2000, by Luis Clemente.