Michael Meert, director of ‘Ketama y su herencia flamenca’. Interview

“Flamenco plays an increasingly major role
in the cultural history of Europe”

Silvia Calado. Madrid, June 2005

Flamenco extends its filmography. Michael Meert premières ‘Ketama y su herencia flamenca’, a movie on the recent history of flamenco, told through the eyes of The Habichuela clan. The director felt an attraction to the flamenco arts ever since he was a boy, and confirmed his love of flamenco when he directed the documentary ‘Paco de Lucía. Light and shade’. In the wake of that grand entry into flamenco, he wanted to know more and began “fishing around for ideas”. And from those that he came up with, he selected the one about this family of guitarists from Granada that forms a bridge between traditional and modern. Ketama's last concert in Morocco is the start of a journey that explores the group's 'Flamenco Heritage' - the story of the band, the biographies of the central characters, the family ties, emotions and, of course, the music that the Carmona brothers made, are making... and will continue to make.

How did you first come into contact with flamenco?

It all started very early on. I come from a family of musicians, my grandfather was a violinist and my mother a guitarist. When she was already in her fifties, she bought a flamenco album that we had at home, an instructional album that explained each of the different flamenco 'palos'. As a kid I listened to it a lot and it stayed in my head. Later I spent many years making movies and traveling around the world. I stopped off in Madrid and after some work here on Manuel de Falla - which made me think in the end that flamenco is classical music and not a folk tradition - and Isaac Albéniz, I got to meet Paco de Lucía.

(Photo: © DocFilm)

It took a huge effort, but I managed to convince a German TV station and the French channel Arte to produce the biographical documentary ‘Paco de Lucía. Light and shade’. That isn't the original title, which I like a lot more: ‘The next fifteen seconds’. It talks about improvisation and intuition in music. He taught me the basics of flamenco. As for his biography, everybody told me about his background: what happened with his father, what happened with Camarón, the significance of certain places in Andalucía... And little by little, I started wanting to make something much more complex.

Was it your idea that the central characters should be Los Habichuela?

I held a kind of drawn-out casting process. I searched around a lot, or rather I fished around for ideas. I'd have liked to make a ‘road movie’ on Andalusian people like Manuel de Angustias - he's a vocalist from Utrera, the town butcher, who recorded his first album when he was seventy, at the same time that his grandson recorded his own. I tried to write scripts and find a producer based around different ideas, but it was really hard to get the financial backing, harder still in Spain. Later I saw that the Habichuela clan fulfilled all the requirements for a good cinema film - I mean each one has his own personality, they're all very different. And each one has a very good way of expressing himself, a good presence in front of the camera. Also I got very emotional about the story of the grandparents. Then there's Juan Habichuela, who in the movie tells a part of his life story but, of course, I know way more. His story is worthy of a full-length movie on its own. The beautiful thing about ‘Herencia Flamenca’ is the fact that it's the story of four generations, and there are plenty of details to squeeze in, which fit together to make a very complex puzzle. And a lot of work has gone into giving it a narrative structure. Just today a woman that works at Canal Plus told me she didn't know anything about flamenco, but that she got very emotional when she saw the movie. That's our aim.

To reach a wider audience, even if it isn't an audience familiar with flamenco...

I think it isn't just a beautiful movie for flamenco-lovers, friends of the Habichuela family, fans of Ketama... but also an emotional story, a history of generations, of family life, of conflicts, even of Spanish politics.

What kind of content does the film include?

It isn't exclusively biographical. The challenge for me was to not make any kind of analysis. On TV you do a report and later a journalist analyzes it or expresses an opinion. In my documentaries I don't do this. My method consists of, after hitting on an initial idea, emptying myself completely and working very slowly. This project took almost four years and I think you can see that from the result. Of course, the Carmona family were thinking “here comes another journalist type”, “a German”, “let's see what he has to say”, “let's see if we can get it over with quickly and without a lot of fuss”, but little by little I convinced them that it was worth doing something more complex. Now they say it was worth it, they have a movie of their own now, that will be around for their grandchildren, their great-grandchildren... And for me it also documents cultural history. Flamenco plays an increasingly major role in the cultural history of Europe. I can see how it's enjoying a surge in popularity in countries like Germany. I was recently in the Czech Republic with the movie and there's a huge interest there. There are people that are in the know, but also people that don't know anything, and who told me they discovered a new world with this movie. And that they want to go to Granada, that they want to see Madrid and learn all the secrets of flamenco.

(Photo: © DocFilm)

The story begins in Morocco, right?

It was a coincidence that Ketama played what was to be, to the present day, their last concert in Essaouira, which is also an emblematic place in terms of world culture, of world music. It was amazing what we saw there. It's just a scene from the movie, but you start to feel what they're like and how they latch on intuitively, for example, to the rhythms of gnawa music. They're amazing. And as people they're exceptional.

What problems did you come up against when you took a camera into the family home?

It took time. The life of 'gitano' families is a world apart. There's a good relationship between gypsies and non-gypsies, but there's a boundary line. Maybe it helped me being German and, at the same time, understanding a little about music. We watched the Paco de Lucía documentary together beforehand and they said “there's something special here”. Also, for pleasure, I take a lot of trouble to get to know flamenco music, above all with radio programs like ‘Nuestro flamenco’ and ‘Flamencos y Pelícanos’ on Radio Nacional de España - two different worlds. And going back to the Carmona family you have those two elements: the stuff that gets played on ‘Nuestro flamenco’, the more traditional side, and the stuff that's featured on ‘Flamencos y Pelícanos’, the more modern-day stuff. And for a movie that's a delight.

And the soundtrack?

Most tracks were played live. Some songs taken from albums were chosen based on the content of the film, something that foreign audiences will miss out on. It gives you an extra angle, there are even pop songs.

Will there be new discoveries for flamenco audiences?

I think so, because of the complexity of the relationships. I don't know, they’ll have to decide that for themselves. La Pelota told me in Granada that she could never imagine there were so many things that would surprise her, being a woman that knows so much about this artform. And for me that's better than any award.

It takes a tour of every generation, including the generation in the pipeline, right?

At the end of this year an album will be released by Juan Camborio's eldest son with the group Química, which features Carlitos, son of Carlos Carmona, and two of Estrella Morente's cousins on vocals. I think Ray Heredia's daughter also sings. Let's see how they get on in a difficult, changing world. I'm optimistic, I see more possibilities today than ten years ago. Among the other tools they have, there's access to Internet, which plays a very important role in spreading the word about flamenco worldwide.

What do you think of the filmography on flamenco?

Most of the movies in the Muestra de Cine Flamenco de Madrid festival - that I attended to present ‘Herencia flamenca’ - are films I know and they're very interesting. Carlos Saura is a genius, I love his films and also his feeling for music and for flamenco. He featured in my first project on Manuel de Falla. And I learned plenty from him on Andalusian culture, on Spanish culture... As for the others, Dominique Abel is an example of a woman that has delved deep into the scene and produced enthralling projects.

	Herencia flamenca poster (Photo: © DocFilm)

Is there room for more film projects?

I think so. Inside here, at the back of my head, there are several ideas. It's still a little early to say, but I'm working on more things and now, fortunately, I have greater access to the flamenco scene. Like I already said, in Granada it was incredible what people said. They gave me a warm welcome, information, opened their doors to me... I visited Marina Heredia and her parents, also a great cantaor called Jaime Heredia. Well, you know how it works, it snowballs... Now I could spend my whole life on this, but I can't do that, I have more things to do.

How did audiences react in Germany, where the film's been showing for some months already?

People than knew nothing about this scene said some beautiful things that you can't imagine. For example, for many of them the other main issue is the love that exists between generations. There's also talk of rupture, but at the same time of this special kind of gypsy love. People liked the fact that there's a movie now that speaks about this stuff when nobody speaks about the family any more. And now I think a lot about my mother, about my grandfather... about the part of my family that was into music.

Do you feel a responsibility to transmit a cliché-free image of flamenco?

Yeah, very much so. This is also a project that's against prejudices associated with gypsies. In Germany right now a whole load of gypsies are arriving from Romania and they live in much more adverse conditions than the gypsies here in Spain. And I live in the hope that a dialog will be opened up between the calé gypsy people, the sinti gypsies, the roma gypsies... we're talking about several million people. You have to recognize that and offer them a means to a dignified and enjoyable life in Europe. I didn't try to make propaganda here, but a lot of people saw it that way.

What type of flamenco do you like personally?

At the moment, I'm listening to Diego Carrasco albums a lot, they're streets ahead. Also Rancapino... and I love his son. I listen a lot to Arcángel and I'm a great fan of Estrella Morente and of Marina Heredia. Maybe I see possibilities for a project with flamenco women, but let's take it one step at a time. There's plenty still to be told... more every day.

magazine@flamenco-world.com