Niño Josele, flamenco guitarist. Interview

“Now I feel more flamenco than before”

Silvia Calado. Madrid, May 2006
Translation: Joseph Kopec

“What do you think of a flamenco pronouncing song names in English?” The first question is asked by Niño Josele, dying with laughter, telling how he renamed ‘Turn out the stars’ as ‘¿Tú dónde estás?’. But fortunately, the linguistic differences don’t affect the music. And that universal speech is what has made it possible once again for a flamenco to set off on the adventure of translating types of music from other lands. The third album by the Almería-born guitarist is a tribute to pianist Bill Evans, promoted by Fernando Trueba, Javier Limón, and tangentially by Bebo Valdés, too. An experience which has caused Niño Josele to look at his bajañí differently, to go from toque to music.

What is ‘Paz’?

	Niño Josele (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

‘Paz’ is really a record by a team of friends - Javier Limón, Fernando Trueba, Horacio el Negro, Marc Johnson, the rest of the musicians who’ve collaborated – that’s made music and a tribute to Bill Evans. We didn’t try and do a fusion album between jazz and flamenco. No, we’ve simply done a tribute to Bill Evans’ music.

How did you get to know the American pianist’s music?

I know Bill Evans’ music through Bebo Valdés. In a sound test at a concert, he started playing a song of his. And Bebo talked to me about him with so much excitement and so much zest that I felt curiosity. I thought that I had to get to know him, that I had to experience it. The piece he played, ‘Waltz for Debby’, was so nice. But I didn’t intend to do anything by Bill Evans or any jazz. I did start to feel like playing the song at home. I told Fernando Trueba and Javier Limón to record something for me, but they were really tied up and so I pushed forward by myself. And one day I coincided with Trueba at the studio, I played a bit of that song for him, and after some time, he called me and proposed to me the idea of making the album.

What caught your eye about Bill Evans musically?

That man has so many things... But what caught my eye was that he played jazz really differently. You could see he had a musical background from classical music. I was really impressed by his way of expressing and the harmony; where he went harmoniously in a very uncommon way. He was capable of taking a song by anybody and leading it somewhere else. In fact, there are songs on the album which weren’t his, but which he used to have in his live repertoire. And he made everything his own.

More than Bill Evans’s music, what’s on the record are his versions of standards which he moreover performed differently in each recording. Then how did you all choose the repertoire?

Right away Fernando Trueba gave me a selection of twenty songs for me to listen to, rule some out and then he’d send me some more. He kept sending me records to my house. There were seven versions of ‘Waltz for Debby’, twelve of another... Afterwards I got versions by other musicians, and on my own I started talking to friends and asked them if they had other things. I wanted more. For example, to play the version of ‘Waltz for Debby’, it was clear to me. I had several live versions of different length, and I liked all of them: from the two-minute one to the fifteen-minute one. The truth is I didn’t know how to do the version. After being on the guitar for a couple of hours, I realized the only thing that could be done to do a version of Bill Evans on guitar was to do a version of him from the live shows, taking details from each of them until you’ve created your own version. I found the key; that’s what the album was about. It was a lot of work for me because every thirty seconds was eight hours for me, since it was really hard to place the notes harmoniously. I couldn’t find the key; I was going crazy. That’s hours and hours of work. And then I started looking where the obligatory notes were in all the versions I had in order to start ruling things out.

What is the greatest challenge you’ve ever faced as a guitarist?

Until now, I’d seen guitar at another level. Technically, it’s played really well, you can do interesting things, but until now I hadn’t looked at guitar as music. I didn’t know you could see guitar at another level. And on discovering Bill Evans, at the same time I discover there’s a whole world there. You can play versions, songs, standards, something which hasn’t been done much in flamenco. I’d been on that wavelength since I did ‘Beautiful Love’ on an album with Javier Limón. I think it’s really nice for a flamenco to be able to sit down and play with any musician in the world.

Niño Josele (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

Not long ago I was told by Tomatito in an interview about ‘Spain Again’ that he thought “the field of improvisation is hard for flamenco”. Have you come across that problem?

Learning how to improvise is hard in a closed room. Learning the keys to jazz is the same as learning the ones to flamenco; you have to play in jazz clubs, improvise with people who know how to and play every day, make mistakes... I think it’s the only way. It can take you years to learn how to improvise the way it’s done in jazz. It’s another way of seeing music. And when you discover how to improvise, you can’t give it up any more; you’ve got to be at it constantly. In songs by Bill Evans, I’ve realized that it’s impossible to improvise in certain chords and melodies. For example, in ‘Peace’, how can so many things be done in just two chords? When you already know how to improvise and you know where the scale is, it’s much easier for a guitarist. And if you understand guitar as music, it’s a must to learn music.

What flamenco is there on this album?

	"And why not do a tribute to our music, which is flamenco?"

Above all, the introductions. After listening to Bill Evans a lot and reading about his life, I discovered that he really liked it when he used to improvise beginning with a melody, for example, by Charlie Parker or any jazz genius. I took the common thread from there and developed a masterful improvisation. And why not do a tribute to our music, which is flamenco? Why not do a touch of Ramón Montoya? Why not do a seguiriya intro? If, for example, the tone of ‘The Peacocks’ is in a taranta tone? I saw it clearly. I was given the idea directly by Bill Evans.

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