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Toni el Pelao with El Yunque at Torres Bermejas
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El Pelao has had many top-notch accompanists: "Paco de Lucía has
played for me to dance, Manolo Sanlúcar, Paco Cepero...". In fact,
in the second Gypsy Flamenco Festival Mariquilla, Paco de Lucía, Camarón,
Uchi and Toni el Pelao toured Germany together.
But that age of splendor passed. Toni believes that "the tablaos have
been set up now just for tourists, but because Spaniards don't go to the tablaos
anymore. They go through agencies and through hotels". And that, in his opinion,
has not caused quality to be lost in what this stage offers, since "he who
keeps on dancing pure flamenco, keeps on dancing pure flamenco". Uchi adds
to this that "not even the gypsies go anymore; it's a pity. Nowadays with
the evangelical churches, this is over". Toni again points at the dancing:
"All those who are currently on stages that have danced before at the tablaos
have changed their style of dancing... and very little flamenco is seen. They
dance with a lot of technique, they all dance very well, but little flamenco;
there's no purity because they've seen that they didn't make money with the pure
form. That's why they're all revolutionizing dancing in a way that some people
like and some don't. I'm sticking to my pure flamenco style". He recognized
that, indeed, "the level has fallen because there are very few artists that
dance pure flamenco at the tablaos".
Uchi puts out her neck for the new generation of bailaors emphasizing that
"they're dancing marvelously now" and assuming that "before it
was all more of an art". And El Pelao picks up where she left off: "I
think that everyone who's there is there because they're good. The style has been
lost, the art has been lost, but the dancing in itself is much better. Before
a few things were done and now a million are done. The flamenco has been lost,
because they don't devote themselves to the art, but rather to the technique in
the zapateado".
Uchi: They don't respect the cantaors either.
Toni el Pelao: The cantaor is singing and they're going tutucutúntucutún.
And when the cantaor is singing you have to move around, you have to raise your
arms around the stage so that his singing is listened to.
Uchi: They have little respect.
The positive interpretation could be the shifting of flamenco from the tablao
to the theater, couldn't it? Of course, "a lot has been gained", affirms
Toni. And that has brought with it an increase in the level of quality since,
as Uchi insists, "people are dancing very well".
Toni: All the men and women are dancing very well... but not flamenco.
Uchi: Well, there are people taking a stab at it. But I insist on respect...
it's been completely lost. You do soleá and nobody respects your dancing
anymore. Before someone else did alegrías, another seguiriyas.
Toni: Now one dances por soleá and the other, too. Alegrías one,
alegrías the other. Before there was artistic respect, but now there isn't.
And he again resorts to an anecdote. "When Farruco came to Madrid for
the first time he used to dance bulerías, bulerías por soleá
and farrucas. And when he met my father at the café at Plaza de Santa Ana,
the Villa Rosa, and he saw him dance por farrucas... In front of Farruquito he
said that he hadn't danced the farruca for sixty years after seeing Juan el Pelao
dance it. And I told his grandson: "Mind the words your grandfather is telling
you now". But he's already changed a little bit, too".
Toni el Pelao with El Yunque
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And one more question... In the cante and music world, do you also think that
flamencura has been lost?
Toni: Cante is being recovered quite a bit more because all the cantaors now
sing all the styles. Before, they used to sing three: one was soleá, another
seguiriyas and another bulerías por soleá. And they never broke
out of that until Antonio Mairena and Manolo Caracol came along. Now they all
keep on singing all the styles. Cante has gained a lot... as have the playing
and dancing. The catch is that it is danced less purely. Living proof is that
there's only one woman continuing with pure flamenco, for her courage, for her
brilliance, and for her disposition, and that's Manuela Carrasco.
Uchi: She's one of the few ones left.
Toni: All the artists there are now have only seen Carmen Amaya on video. Nobody
personally. They've seen Farruco already at forty-something, but you have to have
seen him at eighteen or twenty. I was lucky enough to see Carmen Amaya in '59
at the Zarzuela Theater, and that's where flamenco dancing began. After seeing
Carmen Amaya, well, everyone seemed very good to you, but... And it was precisely
for Carmen Amaya that his grandfather, Tío Pelao, played the guitar for
over seventeen years.
Uchi: And that's where all the stories they tell come from, like how they used
to roast sardines at the hotel...
Toni: And they used to ride a donkey... Carmen Amaya's father and brother left
my grandfather to baby-sit the girl. And when they were in the hotel lobby she
told him, "Tío, I'm going upstairs to have a shower". And at
that moment a gentleman came and asked for her. And he tells him that she's gone
to the "bouts". He went up to get her... "Carmen, Carmen, child,
there's a gentleman waiting for you downstairs". And at that moment the telephone
rings. "You answer it, Tío Pelao", she told him. "Hello,
who's calling, please? Hello, please. Do you have bad breath?" And the thing
was that Dieguito, the boy, had dirtied the telephone with poop.
Uchi: He was sharp. He did some things that Sabicas told us, may he rest in
peace... What a good gypsy, too.
Toni: He went crazy when he saw us in the United States, after all that time
since my father had been there with La Chunga.
And the anecdotes pour out throughout a chat which ends in reflection. Toni
assures that "I have no complaints about an artist's life. I've traveled
the world over, I have my small place in the capital of Madrid and at the age
of sixty-three, people are still calling me". In fact, they went back to
Torres Bermejas four years ago, they figure on the bills of national festivals
and are already preparing an upcoming tour around the capital. But Uchi replies:
"You're a person who has settled for little. I mean that you've worked and
you've gone home; you've never gone the way they all go. Having enough to eat
has always been enough for you". And he affirms with a certain pride: "They've
had to call me; I've never called (them)".
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