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You have to believe in what you’re recording, don’t you?

I spent a great many hours studying the album. I used to meet at night with Gamboa, we’d grab the guitar and I started singing. Rehearse this, sing here... We went on like that until it was perfect and he told me: “It’s OK now. Let’s record on Friday”. Three months of work in all, with a lot of problems... And bringing together Los Habichuela, which is hard, too.

The title is overwhelming: ‘Pitingo con Habichuelas’.

It sounds like a dish. Ha ha ha ha.

How did you manage to bring them together?

	Pitingo

At the beginning, more artists were going to come in, but it wasn’t possible for different reasons. And Gamboa had the idea of the entire album being just with the Habichuela family. Bringing Pepe and Juan together... They hadn’t come together in a recording for over thirty years, and Gamboa managed to gather the entire family, even the grandchildren. It was nice to see it at the studio. They were all really good to me. Pepe Habichuela put his trust in me from the very beginning. And I have a daily friendship with Uncle Juan, of calling each other every day. When I don’t call him one day, he yells at me. As if I were a son of his.

And what did recording with them mean to you?

The first one I heard at the studio was Uncle Juan Habichuela with the granaína. And I broke down and cried. I get emotional when I listen to something so nice, but on top of it seeing him there in the studio, so old and with that way of playing... I broke down and cried. But I mean, El Camborio and I cried for hours at the studio during nearly the entire recording. The same with Uncle Pepe, with the seguiriya. Works of art? To me, the granaína and the seguiriya. The ‘soulería’ and what not are contributions, but the works of flamenco art are the seguiriya and the granaína; they’re the ones that left their mark on me. If I play the record, I always go to the seguiriya and the granaína. The rest is OK, the malagueña too, but not the way those two cantes are played and sung. I’d have loved to take the seguiriya off the album as a single. But we all know that it’s impossible; people don’t understand it.

Then there’s the more modern side: the ‘soulería’, the malagueña with pasodoble, ‘Celos’... Where does that soul side of yours come from?

When I began recording, the truth is that I was doing everything traditional. And one night I told Gamboa that I had some stuff with the guitar. I did it for him and he told me why not do it on the album. I was a little embarrassed to. And he told me it was really nice and that I should do it... That’s how the ‘soulería’ came up. Then I went to the studio and I started doing several voices. Nearly all the choruses on the record are mine. I spent a lot of years singing gospel with black friends of mine. And that relationship lives on. A black guy and girl who sing unbelievably are most likely going to come with me this summer to the Sabatini Gardens to do some choruses for me. Now they’re with Mojo Project; their names are Iván and Maica Sitte. I started singing with them, learning all the harmonies of the choruses and their way of turning. And I think it’s contributed a lot to me to do something different. I don’t want to invent anything new because flamenco’s already invented, but rather, simply contribute something to the harmony.

Like the path taken by guitar in recent times...

That’s right. In cante there was a time when it advanced the same as guitar, but guitar took the lead as far as harmony and tones. And I want to contribute different tonalities because flamenco, though new things are done, always goes in halftones. And gospel has a wealth of harmonies you wouldn’t believe, different turns. I think it can be done. ‘Los quereles’ is done with a base underneath of gospel choruses, just like the ‘soulería’... it’s all gospel with a flamenco beat.

Pitingo (Photo: Daniel Muñoz)

It’s not intentional fusion, then, but rather it comes in your training.

Yeah, of course, I already knew it. There were a lot of gypsies talking in Madrid saying that Pitingo had to sing modern stuff. But I didn’t know what they meant by modern stuff. What’s modern? I simply think new contributions can be made. And if I ever make a second album, it’ll be flamenco again with some contribution. I’d love to record ‘Yesterday’ por bulerías. Now we’ve done the soundtrack of the film ‘Cándida’ by Guillermo Fesser, ‘Gwendolyne’ by Julio Iglesias and the entire song had gospel choruses underneath, something lovely. I’d have liked to put it on this album but there wasn’t enough time.

What’s there in common between flamenco and those types of music?

It’s the same way of modulating. I always compare Stevie Wonder to Pepe Marchena in the speed of his voice. And I compare La Niña de los Peines to Aretha Franklin, to those pure, black voices and that way of turning. The thing is that flamenco has other tonalities. If a cantaor were to learn that way of turning, he could sing soul. These people from Mojo Project sing flamenco. They might not sing por soleá, but they know how to do things by Camarón perfectly. The rhythm’s a little harder for them, but they can do it.

And you like Camarón as much as Marchena...

There are people, for example, who only like Juan Talega, those hoarse voices. And there are people who only like Mairena and they don’t get away from there. I like Marchena in some things, I like Mairena, I like Talega, I like La Niña de los Peines, Manolo Caracol, Capullo de Jerez... The thing is that I like all cante that’s done well and with feeling. Others might seem cold to me to a greater or lesser extent. Nowadays? I really like Enrique Morente. I think he’s the one contributing the most to flamenco.

What’s happening to young people, that Morente’s still the one taking the risks?

The thing is that young people try and do something modern, so to speak, but they don’t risk doing something different. To a lot of young people, doing something modern means sticking in drums with a bulería beat. And it really doesn’t contribute anything, because they’re simply doing the same thing but with another instrument. But Morente suddenly changes tonalities, sticks in some voices here, there he does... He’s brilliant. And he doesn’t lose the flamenco essence because then he goes to a theater and sings his entire show por tarantas, mineras, cartageneras, his soleares, his seguiriyas... But in his recordings he does whatever he thinks of. I flip out with him. He’s ahead because he’s got a more open mentality than anyone else. When he listened to my album he called me up and what he liked the most was the malagueña when the two voices are brought together at the end. “How nice, what a funny idea. Congratulations, Pitingo”, he told me. He called me at three o’clock in the morning. Ha ha ha. Him telling me that makes me feel proud, since I think it’s hard to surprise him.

The image you reflect on the album is eye-catching, closer to a pop singer. Is there a bit of rebelliousness against clichés?

I wanted to do it that way. I used to have long hair, but I felt like getting it cut because I had a lot of problems here in my daily life in Madrid, to get into places, to get a taxi... That was long before the album. I simply give an image of a twenty-five-year-old guy who just because he’s a flamenco, doesn’t have to go around with a polka dot handkerchief and advertise that I’m a gypsy. I am a gypsy, but I don’t have to go around wearing boots, nor do I have to say ‘su primo’, ‘su mama’. I grew up in Madrid and I talk and live like a normal guy.

Do you see more possibilities nowadays for the cante you young people do to reach other audiences?

Look at Miguel Poveda, Arcángel and Estrella Morente. The three of them are completely different and the three of them cover a large audience outside of flamenco. The other day I was at the swimming pool and a really bakala lifeguard started talking to me and he told me that he loved Miguel Poveda. He told me he had all his records and that he loved how he sings. And it made my day. That’s great. Everyone likes Arcángel, too... And I try for everyone to like me, too; flamencos and non-flamencos. Some will like me more and others will like me less. Right now I’m being shot down, especially by a lot of flamencos, but I don’t pay a lot of attention to what they say. Everybody liked me three years ago and now nobody likes me, but oh well...

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