INTERVIEW. ROSARIO LA TREMENDITA, CANTAORA
“Guitar is a perfect work
instrument for a cantaor”
Silvia Calado. Madrid, September 2009
Translation: Joseph Kopec
Being born in Triana is not a condition
for being a flamenco. But if your great-grandmother is a
cantaora, your father is a cantaor, your mother comes from
bailaores… the circle tightens. And what starts out
as a game might end up becoming a profession. That’s
exactly what happened to Rosario
la Tremendita, whose age nearly matches her career
in years: 25. The Sevillian cantaora defines herself as
an up front cantaora, and she thus carries out projects
as different as her traditional recital, the face-off with
Persian musicians and her concert ‘Pinceladas’
in a jazz format… and singing standing. But if they
know how to give her role to her, she doesn’t refuse
to collaborate with conceptual bailaores like Andrés
Marín, Belén Maya and Rocío Molina.
The album is in mind, but there’s no hurry... it’s
one of the folders on the desktop of her computer, her second
work tool after guitar.
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Rosario la Tremendita |
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Rosario la Tremendita was born
into a flamenco family in Triana…
My stage name comes from my father; it’s
not a very original matter. My father’s a cantaor
and he’s instilled it in me since I was a little girl.
On my father’s side, my great-grandmother was also
a cantaora; I’ve spent a lot of time with her and
I used to learn the cantes from her. They’re bailaores
on my mother’s side, so I had no options there. I
spent a lot of time with my father when I was little and
it became normal for me to go with him to festivals, to
the ‘fiestas’. Next, he began to take me to
contests and peñas. It started off as a game and
ended up being my profession and my way of making a living.
Later on it’s not so funny, but…
And what was it like for you to
be so precocious?
My father instilled it in me as a game;
he didn’t want to force me. He was also the one who
put a guitar in my hands, which is my work instrument right
now, which I train and study with. After a certain age,
my father did get more serious about it; that was harder.
I was in high school, plus several hours studying daily.
And on weekends, when all the girls used to go out to play,
I’d go to the contest or the peña. That was
the period I liked least; I used to have exams during the
week at high school and on the weekends the cante exams
at the contests. It was something you don’t take very
well when you’re fourteen or fifteen.
Were your experiences at the contests
positive?
They were positive because they force you
to study cante. You’d go to Málaga, and you’d
learn the caña and the polo. And you’d go to
the contest in Mairena and you’d study the soleá
and seguiriya de Mairena. When you suddenly realize that
over the years you’ve acquired a really broad range.
The uncomfortable thing was taking exams constantly, the
tension, the judges… Right now I focus the stage as
a way of telling and expressing myself; we’re talking
about art. And when you’re in a contest, we’re
talking about something else, something technical. It’s
perfect as training, but you should just have it during
a phase. I finished with Córdoba; I made it clear
to my father there that it was the last time, no matter
how it turned out. We were lucky and I won the ‘Manolo
Caracol’ award. I pulled out there and began a more
positive professional phase of putting together my concerts,
my recitals and collaborating with people I like.
There aren’t currently many
cantaores with roots from Triana. What’s special there
that you can uphold or recover?
I can talk about my family. My great-great-grandmother
had 21 children and they all lived in Triana. From there
on… What I’ve lived of Triana has been with
them, at home, at the Peña El Bollo on Fabié
Street, my father’s friends, Maera’s family…
And the cantes from Triana are highlighted by both the soleá
and the seguiriya de Los Caganchos. There are a great many
cantes to record; I’m studying them and I’d
like to compile them. But I didn’t want to stop there;
flamenco is really extensive. At any rate, Triana is no
longer Triana. They’ve put up buildings so you no
longer know if you’re on San Jacinto Street or in
Pamplona. I’ve had the chance to be with El Arenero,
with Márquez el Zapatero, I’ve listened to
them, I’ve been close to them… But it’s
nothing compared to what my grandmother or my great-grandmother
were able to listen to; I’ll take what they tell me
about.
And besides that, do you have any
other clear references?
There are a lot of them. I’m not
a single cantaor’s cantaora. There are many cantaores
to search through. I’ll take Manolo Caracol with his
so anarchic cante but with so much taste, Antonio Mairena,
Escacena, El Mochuelo… each one has a different register.
I discuss that with a lot of my colleagues who go on about
“the best cantaor is…”. I think it depends
on what and how. I like to listen to everybody: Marchena’s
milongas and cantes de Levante, Mairena’s seguiriyas
and soleá, La Niña de los Peines’ such
nice cantes abandolaos... That’s my way of working;
depending on the cante I want to study, I go to the base
and the closest recording to the cantaor who did it. Of
the more modern ones, I love Camarón, El Pele…
I don’t know, I like a great many. But I never fight
with anybody about a cantaor. Imagine how many cantaores
there are who have passed sentence. Stopping at one would
be limiting yourself. For example, I took the vidalita I
do in Carlos Saura’s show from Vallejo and he took
it from Gardel, since it’s an Argentinean tango.
Then they say we’re modern
nowadays and not very pure…
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“I
love music and limiting yourself would be a blunder”
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Not at all. Someone who listens to it and
doesn’t know it’s a vidalita might think I’m
singing a song. I love music and limiting yourself would
be a blunder.
As a work method, you say you take
a cante, you go back and you update it.
It happens with the vidalita; with Antonio
Rey’s arrangements, it sounds like a current song.
I think there’s a lot to do going back. The guajira
I do with Rocío, she asked me where I’d gotten
it from. And I took it from the oldest stuff, from El Mochuelo,
from La Rubia de Málaga, from when flamenco, more
than flamenco, seemed like Spanish folklore. I like that
work method because I like to listen, I like to get informed.
That’s my line.
And is it true that you have a
daily routine with your computer, your records, your guitar?
Yes. Every day. I’d like to say I’m
really wild, that I don’t study or anything, that
the magic comes to me up on stage. But no; any job involves
dedication. And it’s not a matter of just me, but
of any person who likes his job. I get up, have breakfast
and grab my guitar. Depending on the projects I have closer
to me, I start doing research, training and spending time
on it. I have discipline because if you lose it… This
job is hard because there’s no boss, we travel...
But that’s what laptops are
for, aren’t they?
Laptop computers, Youtube… those
things are brilliant. Now it’s really easy. Before
people used to go to a godforsaken lost town to look for
a little old man… It’s really comfortable for
us now. It’s awful for someone to like this and not
spend time on it and dedication; we have it really hand,
there are no excuses.
And how do you use the guitar?
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“I
like guitar more than cante”
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I like guitar more than cante. Yesterday
I was coming by car from Albacete with a guitarist and we
listened to guitar records the whole way. And he said to
me, “but Tremenda, don’t you play any cante?”.
And the thing is that guitar gives me a lot of scope. When
I was a girl I even wrecked more than one. Starting with
guitar is uncomfortable because there are scales, technique…
but once you already have that, guitar is the perfect work
instrument for any cantaor. I can tell when a cantaor has
some minimum notions of guitar and when he doesn’t.
When arranging the cantes, seeking the tonality… I
make it a lot easier for the guitarist; we can share more,
I can tell him more clearly what I like and what I want
him to do. Guitar and cante are complementary. I’m
not going to dedicate myself to guitar; I leave it on the
couch. Just once I did a touch in a show by Belén
Maya, and I thought about it a lot first… But I came
out trembling!
Does that make you more selective
when choosing the guitarist who accompanies you?
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Rosario la Tremendita
in concert
(Photo Daniel Muñoz) |
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I suppose so. I’m really foolish
there… The guitarist who accompanies you is a very
high percentage of your work up there. He has to contribute
to you and you have to like him and he has to accompany
you the way you understand it. There are many good guitarists;
you can’t be very impertinent, either. Antonio Rey,
who I’ve been with in the Saura thing, is a great
guitarist, and Salvador
Gutiérrez, who is my guitarist and always comes
with me. The connection there is with Salvador is incredible.
I haven’t seen him for a month now, and you realize
that one’s guitarist is very important, neither better
nor worse, he’s like a boyfriend! A time comes when
the understanding is perfect; you note the breathing. But
there are really great guitarists. Antonio, Salvador, Cano,
Juan Requena, Paco Cruz… and surrounding yourself
with people like that, it’s easier to work. And if
you’re a cantaor and you like guitar, you’re
always going to be more on the watch for who’s playing
for you. There are cantaores who are hoping the guitarist
will finish his falseta. I’m wishing for him not to
finish because it’s amazing. I like guitar, it always
accompanies me, I don’t complain, it’s resting
there on the couch, it doesn’t take up much space…
At present, what solo recitals
do you have going?
I have my normal cante recital. Besides
that, I have a concert with some Persian musicians which
we were in France with three weeks ago. And also a show
I premiered at the Sanlúcar Jazz Festival with Salvador,
Antonio Coronel on drums, Pablo Báez on contrabass
and Raynald Colom on trumpet. The traditional recital is
an open structure; it’s just cante, guitar and clapping.
The day you feel like doing polo, polo, and the day you
feel like doing soleá, then soleá. Also depending
on the crowd, you have the chance for it to be more up-close.
The show with the Persians, ‘Constantinople’,
has viola da gamba, sitar and Iranian percussion, with guitar
by Juan Requena. What we wanted to do is to take the cantes
most linked to tradition. We have Sephardic cantes, I sing
a song in Iranian with them, the romance de Zaide, we do
petenera, granaína y media, lullaby… more traditional
cantes which can be merged with them. It’s traditional
music and the concert sounds like and smacks of that. And
the show ‘Pinceladas’ was another show of mine,
where I chose really old-time cantes such as the guajira,
a polo por abandolao, bambera por seguiriyas… and
we recovered and arranged them. The most striking thing
about it is that we did it in a jazz format. The guajira,
for example, consists of drums and solo contrabass, and
the trumpet improvises with me. What I did want to make
clear in ‘Pinceladas’ is that it’s a fusion
of musicians and not of types of music. The matter of fusion
is a little ridiculous now. I don’t stop singing flamenco
because I’m a cantaora and I don’t stop doing
it doing research. And Ray doesn’t stop doing jazz
because he’s a jazz trumpet player. The nice thing
is that he’s in his field and I’m in mine. It’s
a concert I love; it’s the one I’m enjoying
most right now because I’ve put it together from beginning
to end.
And do you sing standing?
I sing standing. I’m having a problem
because I’m starting to take a liking to singing standing.
The other day Saura asked me how I wanted to sing the vidalita.
“Me, standing. You tie me down if you seat me”.
I’m getting used to it and when doing a normal recital,
it’s really hard for me. Standing, the form of expression
is different.
Is there an album in the works?
Yes, we’re having a look at it but
I don’t want to talk much about it yet because things
are still in the early stages. I’ll surely start to
get it ready by the end of the year. I’m happy because
they’re giving me quite a bit of freedom; up until
now I’d been made proposals but it was to record really
limited and really directed. I’ve been cooking it
up and eating it by myself for many years now and I’m
quite rebellious in that sense. Since it’s clear to
me, I’d like to make the record my way. There were
proposals before but I’m not in a hurry, and neither
did it feel right, nor was it the right moment. I wasn’t
really aware of what I wanted and recording for the sake
of recording as is being done in many cases, no. It’s
very delicate, but I think the longer it takes you, the
clearer it is to you. You have to record when you feel capable
of deciding for yourself. And I’m afraid of making
an album where I don’t recognize myself.
Any clues about the concept of
that future début album?
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“I’m
afraid of making an album where I don’t recognize
myself”
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Since it’s going to be the first
one, I want to put on record the work I’ve done for
25 years. I’m going to do flamenco, but the thing
is that I really like music. And if they want to conceive
flamenco for me with just a guitar I think it’s OK
and I respect that, but I love music and I’ll stick
in other instruments. To me a guajira, a bambera or soleá
lyrics, if it’s well researched and well done, it
doesn’t matter if you do it with a guitar, you do
it with knuckles or with drums. I’m going to try for
it to be flamenco, but today’s flamenco, because I’m
25 years old and because I can’t do anything other
than what I’m living. But certainly doing the research
and making it very clear that I’m a cantaora.
And what other types of music do
you like?
I love jazz. I’m mixed up all day
long in the business of those people’s improvisation.
I also like traditional music; in Spanish folklore there’s
a lot to search for and it’s very close to us. I’ve
bought myself the ‘Magna Antología del Folklore’
(‘Great Folklore Anthology’) and I’m soaking
it up. It’s very intense; it all comes from there.
I like music which contributes to mine.
Even though you’re an up
front cantaora, you collaborate with bailaores. How do you
focus your role as a cantaora in those projects?
Cante for baile isn’t my profession,
but I respect it a great deal. And if it can come into your
career, it’s very positive. People who undervalue
it bother me quite a bit because it’s a really hard
profession. If we people who sing up front have the chance
to be there at a given moment it’s fundamental for
your career, but you have to see how, directing what you
want to do. I’ve trained as an up front cantaora,
but the chance has arisen and I’ve been called up
by people I love who know what my role is. They know how
to treat me and how to make me feel good. I’ve done
‘Asimetrías’ with Andrés Marín,
a show which I love and I love him because besides his baile,
he sings better than me, he does a great deal of research
- in fact, when I can’t find something I call him
- and he surrounds himself with really good musicians. I
did ‘Dibujos’ and ‘Souvenir’ with
Belén Maya, where even though I collaborated with
the dancers, nearly all of it was singing up front. Really
intelligent on her part because that’s where they’re
going to make the most of me; each person has to be in his
place. Belén is a person who contributes a great
deal to the art, which puts you at ease; I’ve learnt
a great deal from her up on stage. But she drove me crazy…
Any day now I’m going to be described as a Martian,
like all of them! But since I like strange stuff so much…
I love it; it’s the period we happen to live in. What
can I tell you about Rocío Molina? I’m not
objective. I think she’s the best. We met each other
six years ago in ‘Otra generación’, then
we did ‘Por el decir de la gente’ for Málaga
and now I’ve done ‘Oro viejo’. And I did
‘Vamos al tiroteo’ with Rafaela Carrasco, where
she also left me a lot of ground. She’s a darling;
she gave me the material, I was really at ease. It’s
really easy to work and cohabit with people like that. Since
they’ve been very well-wrought appearances, I’ll
do all the ones in the world like that; we’re talking
about top-level people. They’re baile shows but I
have a specific role. These collaborations are entertaining
for me. I have my projects, my stuff, and they give me a
little gift here.
And the experience of ‘Flamenco
Hoy’ by Carlos Saura?
I’ve been lucky in that show, since
they’ve left me my space. Rocío was also given
carte blanche and the two of us put together the guajira
in a tight-knit group with Antonio Rey. At the end I was
in the jota with all my colleagues and I had a blast. A
positive experience, but very hectic. The truth is I was
excited to be in it for being beside Saura. After several
days, you were already greeting him as if he were your uncle.
You’re with great professionals and on top of it they’re
letting me work the way I want, my vidalita the way I feel
like, the guajira with Rocío with a lot of taste
and the jota at the end with Rafa and Nani… I really
enjoyed it there.
In that project colleagues from
a new generation of flamencos coincide. How do you size
up the panorama around you?
Now we’re really good, there’s
a lot of restlessness and a lot of desire to do things.
Jesús
Méndez is a great cantaor. I don’t
know how old he is but that face and that body don’t
go with that voice, ha ha ha ha. Encarna
Anillo, a great cantaora like her brother José,
is also very restless and really wants to train. We’re
people who are at the same age and we have desire, although
there are people who always think that the old-time stuff
is the best. As always, things are changing but with a great
deal of love for it. I think that the period of refrains
has remained behind us and we’re now returning once
again to try and take it up and do new things, but always
remembering the past. We’ve also gone beyond Camarón’s
period. I love him, but I’d never take anything of
his because his stuff is already done and it’s unsurpassable;
now then, it’s incredible as entertainment. And we
know Camarón’s there, but Enrique
Morente is also there on the other hand, and
it seems like they have to go in different directions and
I think they go together. Moreover, in the projects I work
in I always see a lot of camaraderie and a great desire
for all of us to contribute to one another. It’s a
generation ambitious to learn, more than to be “artists”.
The music world is dangerous because it’s very close
to that of troupes of strolling players and there are people
who aren’t very sure if they want to be musicians
or… No, I think we’re now at a point of musicians
and contributing to one another artistically. We’re
making art and the other world is another profession. I’m
told I’m really dull, that I have to stay and be there
and talk. I don’t like that. I finish work, and I
go straight home… with my guitar.
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